In this episode, Beth Berila and Jonathan Hermida explore how social justice and spirituality come together through embodiment, collective care, and deep inner work. Beth shares why true transformation can’t bypass history, grief, or identity—and how collective healing begins with how we show up, individually and together.
What does true healing require—personally and collectively—when grief, injustice, and uncertainty are part of the human experience?
In this powerful conversation, Jonathan Hermida sits down with Beth Berila, longtime educator, social justice scholar, and Deep Coaching practitioner, to explore embodiment, collective trauma, spiritual bypassing, and what it means to build healing spaces that can hold the full truth of our lives.
Beth shares her personal journey through academia, activism, somatic work, and spirituality, reflecting on grief, identity, emergence, and the courage required to step into the unknown—both individually and as a society. Together, they explore how Deep Coaching practices support not just personal transformation, but collective care, presence, and world-building.
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⏰ Timestamps
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Jonathan Hermida: Beth, it's really wonderful to be here with you and
Beth Berila: you.
Jonathan Hermida: as we talk about these transformational stories, journeys, you can say,
Beth Berila: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Hermida: I always like to start in the beginning, [00:01:00] meaning, who was Beth prior to any inkling of any sort of transformational journey that eventually came.
Beth Berila: Uh, was the catalyst for some transformational journeys Beth was a surprise in the world. Um, yeah. I, uh, uh, mother went to college. She was the, uh, kind of middle-ish sibling of five siblings, none of whom had gone to college. She was the first one who wanted to, and my grandmother, who was always my maternal grandmother, who was my fierce ally in the world, um, advocated for my mom because my granddad, they was a factory worker, excuse me.
And. Felt like it meant mom was better than the family. Um, but she was a learner like, like I am and just really wanted to go to college. So grandma advocated for her and she went, and then she got pregnant with me in [00:02:00] college, uh, in 1970. And, um, despite the fact that the feminist movement and the anti-war movement and the civil rights movement and the lesbian and gay movement were happening, or had happened in the sixties, pretty certain that hadn't hit suburbia a while. And it was a big thing for her to be pregnant, um, in college, out of wedlock, I say in quotation
Jonathan Hermida: Right.
Beth Berila: Um, and I, I say all of that because after years of therapy, I have realized that that was really formative in many ways for me, both positively and in challenging ways. Um, in many ways. So mom had me, she was gonna give me up for adoption, but I was a preemie. um, she convinced they wouldn't let her hold me. The story goes, they wouldn't let her hold me because she was gonna give me up for adoption. And, um, for whatever reason she decided to keep me. And it was a big challenge for [00:03:00] many years. You know, she raised me alone with the support of my maternal line, for the first seven years of my life before we met my stepfather. and, you know, we financially struggled. We, um, were very supportive, supported in many ways by my maternal family, but also judged. Um, especially my mom. Years later, she told me she went to a, uh, family gathering and only one person would hug her. Um, and so I say all of that because. I have realized, like in utero, that I got messages about kind of redeeming both of us. Um, and years later, one of my therapists referred to me as Sparkle Girl, which has kind of stuck and it is both my, superpower and one of [00:04:00] my challenges, which isn't that how it goes,
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah.
Beth Berila: So, uh, if I sparkled enough, if I was good enough, if I was worthy enough, we would be loved and whatever shame had been projected on us would be redeemed. And all that was unconscious, of course. Um, and my grandparents doted on me. but I, I still years, years and years and years later realized that I got those messages, you know, really young, even before I was born. And I changed the trajectory of my mother's life. F Right. She says, and I believe her that I was, I'm one of the best things that happened to her.
And in 1970, without a college degree, without a lot of, um, um, we come from working class roots. she didn't get to be the teacher she wanted to be. Um, you know, and, uh, yeah. And I, and so I, I have spent years learning [00:05:00] how to own the smartness without being owned by it.
Jonathan Hermida: Hmm. So powerful. I mean, just one question, you know, it it, but it's beautiful. I mean, this is also, this is indicative of our community and, and how we just go in, we go straight,
Beth Berila: We're just going right there.
Jonathan Hermida: we go into the heart of the matter. The other thing that stood out is, is you being conceived in college at, during the civil rights moment, given how much basic right, you could say civil rights and university setting have influenced your life or are a part of your life, isn't that incredible? How, just like, you know, you were, it was meant to be the setting set and setting created in a sense who you be became.
Beth Berila: It's interesting, very insightful. You'd think that I would've made that connection and I had not. There were pit pivotal moments later in my own college career that shaped my trajectory to be a professor, [00:06:00] but I never quite put that on. And I went to college in the same place my mom did.
So
Jonathan Hermida: Incredible.
Beth Berila: Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida: Incredible. So then as a young woman, you're, sort of passed down some of these things consciously and unconsciously, and you're trying to make sense of the world, trying to make sense of yourself in this world as a young woman prior to deciding to go off into college.
And that being sort of then a cha, a turning point for you. What, what was your compass or, or if, you know, I didn't have a compass
Beth Berila: Hmm.
Jonathan Hermida: high school personally, so, you know, not everybody has a compass. But I guess what was your relationship to yourself in, in high school prior to college?
Beth Berila: You know, I'm not, it's hard for me to tell how much I'm rewriting my my youth story, through the lens of my current age and all the work that I've done. Um, I mean, I think that my parents would say, I, you know, people outside of my lived reality would say I was, [00:07:00] um, well, I would agree. An overachiever, um, very dedicated student, loving to learn.
I was an only child. I had a stepsister, but I rarely saw her. Um, so for all intents and purposes, I was an only child and lonely. Um, and so. A lot of my life was in books, uh, and Imaginary Worlds. Um, and, you know, I was the college newspaper editor and in charge of clubs and all of that. Um, so in some ways I was developing the leadership that I have now.
Um, but I was incredibly shy, incredibly self-conscious, um, I said, lonely. And, um, maybe I didn't realize I was missing a compass until years later. Like a spiritual compass. [00:08:00] Spirituality was not a part of my growing up. Um, in many ways I had a gifted charmed life. I was well cared for, well loved, always economically secure despite, well, except for the early years, um, despite my working class roots Years later, I realized I was always trying to prove my worth instead of accepting that. It just is. That took me years and years
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah.
Beth Berila: journey.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah. We all are in so many ways. Right.
Beth Berila: Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida: In in what ways was college transformative for you?
Beth Berila: Hmm. Well, I tell this story a lot because it, it, it rocked my world. I, uh, I went to college as an honor student, a straight a high school student, thought I just had it down. And of course, college will challenge all of those things. I walked into my first college class and [00:09:00] a person who would become my mentor walked in the space with skin tight leather pants, snake skin, cowboy boots, uh, ponytail, an earring, resident Marxist feminist of the economics department.
And that man rocked my world. He taught me critical thinking. He challenged me to not just say something because that's what I had been taught, but to be able to why I believed what I believed. And in doing that I discovered I didn't necessarily, and I found new, I found what I really did believe, and he taught classes like the feminization of poverty and, uh, really helped me understand structures and how they work to limit people or overprivileged people. And then I found feminism, in my, uh, gender and women's studies classes. Um, I tell the story that when I went to college, I [00:10:00] went to be an first a journalist and then a international business major. And I used to say I wanted to drive a hot pink jaguar, uh, until my best friends. In college who were like artists and progressives were like, one, you're gonna look like a Barbie doll. I was like, oh, right. She did have that pink car. And two, I found out how much Jaguars cost and like that, like economic inequalities. Some people can't eat and other people can buy really expensive cars. And so that was just indicative of like, yeah, I don't want that. And so I remember walking through college campus and looking up at my professor's window.
He had this giant fish art sculpture in his window. So I always knew which one was his. And I was like, I want his life. I wanna be a professor. so I talked to him and I was like, what should I study? And he's like, go to the library, walk around, decide what you wanna read for the rest of your life. And that's what I did. [00:11:00] Um, so it was really transformative and it. It, it, I'm very grateful for the path that it opened, uh, years and years later with the current career shift that I'm in, I'm beginning to wonder, I'm beginning to reflect on some of the downsides of academia. Well, I mean, I've been reflecting on it for a long time, but just like with some perspective, did it keep me in my head way too much,
Jonathan Hermida: Hmm.
Beth Berila: in ways that got in the way of some oth more embodied, full being transformation, which is where deep coaching comes in for me.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah.
Beth Berila: Um, and where my activism has been. It's where so much of my leadership has been, where so much of my growth and community have been. So it's a gift.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah.
Beth Berila: yeah. And maybe I'm ready for something else. Who knows?
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah, yeah. It certainly sounds like that way with everything that I've been, you know, [00:12:00] reading of you and, and knowing of you. And I, I'm curious to stick here for a bit in terms of the intellectual side of academia. Well, obviously, you know, academia is, is an fully intellectual, but sometimes it stays there, right?
And it stays sort of in, in, in theory and in words on a paper and, and kind of there and then conversational and all that. Talk about some of those sort of downsides. Uh, I'm curious about the, the positive aspects, 'cause there's many as well, but what are some of those downsides that you've started to discover?
Beth Berila: Yeah. Well, began moving into my embodied journey maybe 15 or so years ago, um, because I had started to feel both in my own unlearning and unraveling of harmful messages. [00:13:00] And in my teaching we can, as human beings, we can get things politically and intellectually. We can say we believe in social justice.
We can say we believe in equitable relationships, or that we we are valuable as human beings, but then deeper wounds and deeper, um, lack really disembodiment that is, um,
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah.
Beth Berila: produced by a lot of this world, often makes us act in ways that don't align with what we know intellectually. so, like, I would see students in a, in one moment having a, you know, a really empowered voice and in the next moment say really self disparaging things.
And I recognize that in myself. Right. Um, some of it's learning developmentally. Some of it's that work, it's lifelong journey. But it also got me as a deep [00:14:00] teacher, really wondering, that disconnect? What do, what am I missing as a educator to better support process? And it's not gonna happen in a semester, right?
But how can I plant the seeds? And for me, those questions got answered through embodiment, which was linked in the, in the traditions that I explored, was linked to spirituality. Though I have be, I have to be careful because I don't wanna project my own spirituality onto other people, but to help them find their own and wisdom. when I say embodiment, I mean the kind of, um, deeper self that Leon talks about, right? That we talk about in the deep coaching, less ego, more where, what your deeper wisdom. And I think in order to really be able to discern, um. And I'm using my hands here
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah. Yeah.
Beth Berila: um, [00:15:00] it's a little like, uh, well, like I often talk about internalized oppression, right?
Those messages that we take in about ourselves or our groups, like we breathe in smog, they saturate so much of the world that it's difficult to not take it into our sense of self. But for me, one of the things that my embodiment paths, which I'll talk more about in a moment, helped reveal, is to be able to discern those internalized messages feel very different. Their shaming, their judging, they're, um, dehumanizing.
Jonathan Hermida: Hmm.
Beth Berila: Whereas my deeper wisdom, even if it's just a whisper, is affirming, loving. It might be like, girl, you gotta get a little more training or like, not a great choice on your part. Right. But it, it, so it's not like hallmarky,
Jonathan Hermida: Sure. [00:16:00] Sure.
Beth Berila: come from a place of love and belief in my true being, which feels distinctly different
Jonathan Hermida: Yes.
Beth Berila: harmful socialized messages.
Jonathan Hermida: Yes.
Beth Berila: But I didn't know that until I embarked on the path, which for me
Jonathan Hermida: Hmm.
Beth Berila: first then Buddhism, then yoga, then somatics, and in that mix was deep coaching, which helped me really attune to that deeper sense of self.
Jonathan Hermida: I am so happy we're sitting here having this conversation. I there be there. This is a very important topic and I wanna, and you're, I don't, I don't know of anybody that is better suited to answer some of these questions, difficult questions that I'm about to ask you.
Beth Berila: Okay.
Jonathan Hermida: know, uh, from the standpoint of, because you have dedicated your life to social equity work, you know, that is so, so important given just the dynamics, just the evolutionary trajectory of our, of humankind,
Beth Berila: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Hermida: it's just this is where we're at right now, and this is how we've unfolded and, and we have to confront certain truths about our past and our present
Beth Berila: [00:17:00] Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida: in order to change our future.
Right
Beth Berila: Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida: one thing that I've, I've noticed again, for better and for worse is in nowadays in the 2020s,
Beth Berila: Mm.
Jonathan Hermida: an over identification with the personal self,
Beth Berila: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Hermida: that I'm in, the skin color, the, the, so the everything having to do with the external, which again, on one level is essential in order to heal from wounds that have been sort of, um, adopted, experienced, um, et cetera, et cetera.
Beth Berila: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Hermida: the same time, when we talk about spirituality, we're talking about the self beyond form.
Beth Berila: Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida: So how, where are you right now with your understanding of how, how, and again, this might, there's so many layers to this and nuances to this in order to properly answer it, and I'm happy, I think we should discuss this for a little bit in terms of yeah, how do we square this, this sort of circle
Beth Berila: Yeah. Yeah. So
Jonathan Hermida: sort of [00:18:00] personal identity and, and our spiritual selves.
Beth Berila: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm gonna throw a couple quick thoughts out there, just to kind of have them in the space and then try to go deeper.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah.
Beth Berila: for listeners, I just wanna say this is such a complex topic that, um, we're not gonna get to all of it,
Jonathan Hermida: Not certain.
Beth Berila: um, so one thing is the spiritual and the self, in my view, are deeply interconnected, not separate. And yet, in Western cultures, mainstream western cultures, they are often so disconnected. That we have to go on a journey to re rediscover them. And what that looks like depends on who we are, which is based on our identities in the world.
Like we can't, we can't go on that journey [00:19:00] removed from the context in which we're currently living. So for me, as a white person, US citizen, growing up in the United States with working class roots now, a lesbian and a feminist, to reconnect my current outer self, how I live in the world with a deeper knowing spiritual self, I have to do the reckoning what my white bodied self means in this world.
And so for me, that means one of the costs of whiteness in the United States. Is that in order to get the quote unquote benefits of whiteness, many white people had to disconnect from their cultural lineages. Their, uh, you know, my ancestors came over as [00:20:00] immigrants. They were leaving something. We have somewhere.
Everybody has indigenous roots somewhere. Not like I have one Cherokee or, or, um, Ojibwe uncle somewhere. Not that, but like of us come from somewhere fundamentally, right. But buy into, to, to live the way the world is telling us to live has very often meant severing from our ancestral lineages for white people in this country.
And I say this country, 'cause I know DCI is a global community and different cultural contexts have different histories. And so what that means for me is that it's a journey to reconnect to what's been lost that I don't even know. And for me, that also made, I didn't know my biological father, so I don't know what roots I [00:21:00] There's a whole gap there in addition to the Polish German roots that my grandparents had and the lineages that come from that. so that history and like merging the spirituality itself, kind of reclaiming necessitates that I go through the impacts of constructions, of whiteness, racism, colonialism, all of those things. And for me, that's a felt sense because there's like a wound, um, there that I didn't know about, um, until I started doing this work for people who. Um, come from indigenous roots. I'm a, I live in traditional Dakota and Ojibwe, Andina Bay Homelands. You know, their journey will be different because of the way settler colonialism has impacted them.
For a African American friends and colleagues, their journey will be different because of the way, you know, has impacted them. And [00:22:00] so fundamentally bringing the two together necessitates a looking of at some of that history and what it has meant for each of us, both individually and collectively. Um, the other thing I would say before I pause, 'cause I know that this community doesn't necessarily dive into politics the way I'm going right there,
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah.
Beth Berila: one of the things I loved about DCI is that it was able to hold the community and the training that I did was able to hold space for that complexity without bypassing the politics
Jonathan Hermida: Hmm.
Beth Berila: and. think in many, I've been in mindfulness spaces, Buddhist spaces, yogic spaces, somatic spaces, coaching spaces where there's this desire for heartfelt, peaceful connection with each other. much so that they'll bypass what you have to go through to get to that place. [00:23:00] And if you don't do the accounting of that history, who's in the space? Who's not in the space, why aren't they in the space? Who can speak up, who can't? What's happening in their lives? What are the relations between us?
Whether we wanna drop them or not. Um, there because we haven't, as a world, worked through those things. And so if we don't account for them, then any kind of piece we get a very fragile, shallow piece. And it comes really at the comfort of people who are more normative and at the extreme. Pain, discomfort of people who are not normative.
Jonathan Hermida: Hmm.
Beth Berila: And I'll give you an example. Um, I was in a yoga class once, a deep immersion and it was a group of, it was all white people and all heterosexual people. And I'm a lesbian. That morning or the [00:24:00] night before was the night of the pulse shooting, which you live in Florida, I'm sure, you know, years ago, uh, for listeners who don't know, a um person went into A-L-G-B-T-Q Club with a weapon and shot and killed many people.
And it's important both because it's an act of violence for anybody and because for L-G-B-T-Q Folk, our bars have been necessary sanctuaries and community centers. survival. Like Stonewall happened out the riot and stonewall happened outside of a bar. Um, it's, it's similar to what happens when somebody goes into a black church or goes into a mosque or a synagogue. Um, it's not the same because it's not spiritual necessarily, but it's a community sanctuary that has been so necessary for people's survival. [00:25:00] So, and it was a Latinx night, so folk, people of color sanctuary, random terrorist killing. and I was devastated, just devastated. and I, I thought, well, what better time to go to a spiritual holding space, right?
And I went there and I knew the teacher. I didn't know most of the people in the class, other outside of the class sessions that we had already had. But I knew the teacher. We were like three quarters of the way in and nobody had acknowledged it. Probably 'cause they didn't know it, probably because they didn't have to know it. But like my feeds were blowing up with people in my community acknowledging it and I could not be present I named it. was getting more and more hurt, more and more activated it was in the space but not being named. [00:26:00] And I finally named it and they it and moved on. Right? They didn't know how to hold space for it. that's not necessarily a flaw for them. I think that's what this world creates. but I say that story to say that that's, those kinds of things are always in our spaces in some way. And if we don't hold space for them, allow them to show up and connect. Forge connections that are authentic. Like, we don't have to necessarily stay there, but if we don't hold space for the reality that they're there for some people, the connection is very fragile.
And too often spiritual spaces that I've been in wanna go right by that. And if somebody brings it up, they're seen as the disruptors of the peace instead of
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah.
Beth Berila: um, like, yeah, how do I hold space for that? Unfortunately, I found many, this [00:27:00] is why I find the yoga and social justice community, the mindfulness and politicized semans community, 'cause there are people weaving these together and getting to a deeper level of healing allows for all of that.
And I'll say one more thing. My training with DCI and Leon happened in the summer of 2020 or that was part of the training. So we had been in lockdown, um. All world adjusting right to the COVID Pandemic and the Isol. I think that was around 2020 and the isolation. was also the summer George Floyd was murdered, happened about less than 10 minutes from my house. And so during DCI there, the city was militarized. There were, you know, national Guard helicopters. I could hear pipe bombs happening, um, a few blocks away. a racial reckoning moment of [00:28:00] like, we just watched a black man get assassinated on television or on social media, and this is one of many, and I can't show up in spaces with those things happening without bringing those things with me, recognizing that I'm a white woman and I don't have that kind of daily visceral fear. not from that purpose anyway, not from that arena. And while we didn't necessarily go into the issues, people held space for it
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah.
Beth Berila: held space for my, like, I can't, I think there are pipe bombs going on. Was that a gunshot or was that a pipe? You know? Um, and like, how do I protect my neighbors? How do I, um, show up for justice in this moment? And I was worried, having been in many spiritual [00:29:00] spaces that we're like, that's not here, what we're here to talk about. And yet my heart was hurting so much. I needed, I needed to be there, but I needed to be recognized while being there. And there was some beautiful holding of space. Um, so how do we, I guess I would say. think we have to account for the outer identities and the politics around power
Jonathan Hermida: Hmm.
Beth Berila: happen with that we can get to the deeper connection wisdom.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah.
Beth Berila: Um, and I think how we do that depends on what our histories are. Um, but I do believe there is a deep human connection between us and that ultimately the work we do, I do politically, is to get us to that place so that we can forge connections that are heart centered, that are authentic, where we can all fully show up in our wounds and our healings and our [00:30:00] possibilities that's authentic and not shaped so much or kind of constricted by all these learned things that are happening. Um, and the practices that DCI offer are beautiful ways to get there.
Jonathan Hermida: Hmm.
Beth Berila: Yeah. I'll pause.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah, there's so much in there. You know what, one, one of the things that it, it comes up for me and what I recognize in a lot of these spaces is just like any one of us have our own, um, trauma histories that need to be looked at in therapy and coaching and whatever modality is helpful to navigate that.
And, and as you're conversing about it, things are gonna come up. You're gonna remember things. You're gonna connect the dots, right? Just like that happens. It also happens, um, collectively as well,
Beth Berila: Yes.
Jonathan Hermida: you know, and so to the degree that something is coming up within a [00:31:00] given community, and the reason I'm framing it this way as well is that there, there's too much going on in the world.
Too many horrors, too many tragedies for us as human beings to be on top of all of them and to sort of process all of them. And I don't think it is for us to process all of them.
Beth Berila: Mm
Jonathan Hermida: But it is for us to process the ones that are emerging, whether from our mouth or others' mouths around us.
Beth Berila: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Hermida: Because it's like that collective pain that is closest to us that is seeking to be healed through witnessing and through moving and through being seen, heard, felt,
Beth Berila: Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida: those things.
And so rather, because I think I've noticed that folks get overwhelmed naturally. We have so many things happening in our own lives.
Beth Berila: yeah,
Jonathan Hermida: Oh, here comes Beth, she's gonna add something to the mix. Oh, this is not for, and then they're, they're like, okay, this is too much. This is too much. Right. So on, on a human level, I understand, you know, that kind of like, oh my God, that's not one other thing I need [00:32:00] to sort of worry about and think about.
And at the same time, what you're speaking about specifically though are healing spaces.
Beth Berila: Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida: We're not bringing this up in a random sort of family, you know, gathered around Thanksgiving dinner necessarily. Maybe we are, maybe we aren't, but. Uh, you can see why there, there might be pushback there, right? Of course.
But in a healing space, you would want an environment in which whatever's coming up to be able to be seen, felt, heard collectively together so that we can move through it
Beth Berila: Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida: Right? So that's part of what I'm hearing here, is that, you know, as any one of us is feeling any sort of pain, contraction, fear, turmoil around anything
Beth Berila: Mm.
Jonathan Hermida: that is happening either to ourselves or to those around us, right?
It's, it's important that we're, we're able to be in an environment where we feel safe enough or at least have an environment where we feel safe enough in order to process that together. And not many people [00:33:00] do, unfortunately. In fact, the majority I think of humans do not have that.
Beth Berila: Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida: And I think that's part of what happens.
And so then we're in our own silos and sort of. Ecosystems and you know, not, not being able to fully feel what others feel.
Beth Berila: Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida: That's where we go back to the intellect because we read about it.
Beth Berila: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Hermida: look at these people up in arms about this, that, or the other. And we don't have any sort of connection to it,
Beth Berila: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Hermida: right?
But if we weren't able to actually listen to the person that's experiencing that pain, that hardship, and open our hearts to that person, we're gonna start feeling them. Going back to the somatics.
Beth Berila: yeah,
Jonathan Hermida: And just going back to the complexity of this all, not many of us are able to be with our own stuff, let alone somebody else's stuff.
So here herein lies. I think part of the complexity in terms of our ability to heal what's happening in the world and why work like the ones that we're doing,
Beth Berila: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Hermida: is so essential,
Beth Berila: Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida: right? For us individually to [00:34:00] be that empty container, that vessel that that is allowing and open
Beth Berila: Mm.
Jonathan Hermida: and able. But also then to teach that to others so that they, they then are also able to, whether they're professionally going to do that or not is irrelevant
Beth Berila: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Hermida: because we all need to be able to confront
Beth Berila: Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida: the pain of this world on some level, in some way.
And we will, whether we do it consciously or unconsciously, whether we do it health in a healthy manner, an unhealthy manner,
Beth Berila: Yeah,
Jonathan Hermida: we're confronting it all period.
Beth Berila: Yeah. Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida: You know, and that's a lot of what I'm, I'm hearing as well here in, in terms of, yeah, just, it's, it's, it's complex. It's.
Beth Berila: Hmm. Yeah. love your emphasis on the collective. I think that's a thread I hadn't yet addressed. Um, so much of the care that gets talked about in a lot of healing spaces, and I say [00:35:00] mainstream, just to distinguish between like what's. Popularized and, um, recognized that there are pockets of people doing it very differently. And I'm, I always gravitate towards those pockets. In fact, when I found DCI, I'll circle back for a minute. Um, I had been doing all kinds of research on coaching programs and I just kind of felt like ick. It just feels so transactional. And I didn't have that language, but I was just like, I don't want some formula where somebody's gonna be like, do these 10 things and you two will be a millionaire.
Like that just doesn't resonate with me. And there was something, the deep transformation piece, the healing piece, the heart-centered piece of DCI, even before I knew the community, which really deepens all of that, just like this, feels like what I'm called to do. And it echoes so many of [00:36:00] the other work.
Jonathan Hermida: Hmm.
Beth Berila: that I've taken. Uh, and I say work broadly, not to just mean professional, but like inner work, collective work, community work, so much of the mainstream self-care stuff. Take a bath, get a massage, go on a retreat like the one I'm gonna do
Jonathan Hermida: Sure.
Beth Berila: afternoon. So I wanna acknowledge I do do those things, but they're individual they're often like, do these things so that you can go back to do the hustle work, grind culture. Um, and they require a certain amount of leisure and money. Um, so many social activists are talking about collective care. How do we show up with and for each other in really meaningful ways?
Jonathan Hermida: Hmm.
Beth Berila: speaks to how we build healing spaces because in order to show up with and for each other in meaningful ways, we have to allow space for each other.
Jonathan Hermida: Yes.
Beth Berila: And that means our complex [00:37:00] histories. And it also might mean how do I perhaps represent something or someone who has harmed you in the
Jonathan Hermida: Hmm.
Beth Berila: Whether it's me personally, doesn't matter, you know, because it, it doesn't matter initially because often we have our armoring up as a kind of survival mechanism.
I'm even feeling this with you sometimes we haven't met really before this. And I'm like, is he sitting there thinking she's being way too political? Um,
Jonathan Hermida: But no.
Beth Berila: armoring
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah, yeah,
Beth Berila: and I'm
Jonathan Hermida: yeah. Sure.
Beth Berila: to know I don't wanna go there.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah.
Beth Berila: in other moments, like in that moment with the morning of pulse, wasn't about skill.
It was about my heart is hurting
Jonathan Hermida: Yes. Right?
Beth Berila: I need this to be in the space for me to be in the space.
Jonathan Hermida: Yes.
Beth Berila: need you to be able to hold this. You're not accountable for it. You didn't do it, but, you may not know how to hold. But I can't show up until this is recognized.
Jonathan Hermida: Hmm.
Beth Berila: Um, and [00:38:00] so do believe that there are ways that we need this collective care, um, to move through the multiple traumas that are happening in the world.
And I don't use that world lightly. We are experiencing multiple traumas in this world, and it's different based on who we are, which traumas are most alive.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah.
Beth Berila: there are ways to do that repair work, and it has to happen in community if we want to build something different.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah.
Beth Berila: and I think the, some of the practices in DCI really help lead, like even emergence, I was revisiting it and listening to you and Kate and I was like, yeah, 'cause social justice
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah,
Beth Berila: are talking about emergence all the time, right?
How do you follow Adrian Marie Brown and all the um, uh, emergence strategy folks? How do you follow where the aliveness is? And cultivate many moments of growth and connection that can then ripple [00:39:00] right?
Jonathan Hermida: yeah. You know, is that not what has been happening in, in societally? You know, we, we, 'cause we, we see these tragedies happening and of course it, it's sort of indicative of, hey, something's wrong in the world and, and we, this shouldn't happen of course on a, on a level. And at the same time, the response to these
Beth Berila: Yes.
Jonathan Hermida: moments is that emergence of something different new.
More whole that is wanting to happen, you know? And, and we as a society are, are calibrating I feel, in the right direction.
Beth Berila: Hmm.
Jonathan Hermida: You know? Th this is what all what has been happening, you know, I, the, the work that you do, the, the response that has happened in this country, um, to the pains of, of so many people,
Beth Berila: Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida: it just, it, it takes time.
We're, we're kind of so microscopically focused on this precise moment and wanting it to be sort of something else. But just like we're in a, in a moment in, in the, the seat with a therapist or with a [00:40:00] coach
Beth Berila: Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida: the deepest pain and, and, and trauma is emerging and resentment is there, it, it's not indicative that, again, something's wrong.
It's indicative that this is here to be looked at. And it's in the process of being cleared and healed. And it, it's, it takes years. Takes, takes decades, takes, takes lifetimes. Takes lifetimes, yeah.
Beth Berila: Here's also where I think that discernment comes in, because I don't know about any of the listeners, but uh, I still get that like desire to argue
Jonathan Hermida: Sure.
Beth Berila: like conflict. I hate conflict.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah,
Beth Berila: there's this like, there is this part of the world that's very polarized
Jonathan Hermida: yeah.
Beth Berila: and where we can stay at the US and them.
Jonathan Hermida: Yes.
Beth Berila: And I too get into that. I feel the impulse. But underneath that is a desire to [00:41:00] be seen, a desire to connect authentically, um,
Jonathan Hermida: To feel safe.
Beth Berila: to feel safe. And if I can be like, oh, there's that energy. That's not who I wanna be in this moment. There may be times when that's necessary, like, I need to shut that harm down or something. But I don't wanna stay there. I don't wanna live from that place. Um, I want to cultivate the emergence. And so instead of being like, I'm gonna argue on Facebook, I can be like, where is life and community being built right now?
Jonathan Hermida: Hmm.
Beth Berila: Where can I support the emergence and or where can I given my particular identity with? Someone who is struggling to unlearn the harmful parts.
Jonathan Hermida: Hmm.
Beth Berila: So for instance, I do believe that there are, there's [00:42:00] work white people need to do with other white people that folks of color can do it if they wanna do it, but it, it's exhausting. So many people have said, and like, can you just go talk to white people? Um, and so there's this, like, I can be with people in that space and help move them because I've walked that journey and it doesn't take the same toll on me that it might take someone who then is on the receiving end of some harm that echoes other harm.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah.
Beth Berila: It's sort of like if transgender folks have to explain to people who are not transgender why they should exist, right?
That's painful. And they may not have the capacity to do that all the time, but I, as a non-trans person can do that. Um, and that's part of my role in the world, I think, and we can, we can help each other move through what I see are those really kinda learned paradigms, what ego might talk, what, um, Leon might talk about as ego, [00:43:00] but collectively, um,
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah.
Beth Berila: and get to that deeper place.
And I also think about you and Kate were talking about trauma informed, um, coaching and co-regulation. And I think about the great late Buddhist monk Han, who talked about being on refugee boats and just like one centered, grounded person could have so much impact in the energy field of other people's nervous systems.
So that, I mean, one of the things that my own trauma and somatics work has taught me is that when people are in fight, flight, freeze, or fawn, the trauma, immediate trauma responses, you often can't get your deeper self or your. They might call it the, the rational cognition, but I don't think it's a thinking based thing. It's a feeling deep core wisdom, connection, core self with [00:44:00] Jonathan's core self. Um, and underneath all that learned stuff, right? But when we're trying to be safe in what feels like an unsafe environment, whether it's physically, literally unsafe in this moment or not, it feels like something that was very, very unsafe. you can't, you can't think yourself out of that experience. You can't like argue yourself out of that experience or each other out of that experience. You have to first cultivate a sense of connection and safety. Get to some level, not of like calm necessarily, um, but of groundedness. And then we can begin to peel back some of the layers of like, you know, is the fact that I'm feminist really making you unsafe right now?
Or does that feel like something familiar? You need to be heard. Okay. How can we do that still allowing space for my [00:45:00] fem, like what does that look like? Um, or other moments where people really are unsafe. Um, that's what I meant by being in healing spaces where people bring all of their traumas. And I might represent something that personally have not done something to someone else, but I represent something they have to be armored around to survive in this world. And I don't need to take that personally. I can understand the collectives that have led to that. then what does that mean? How do I then show up in a way that is authentic to my core self, but allows space for us to forge something different?
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah, thi this is where the self-care that we're talking about, it's kind of like the over focus on self-care. Sometimes it, it's just a shift in, um, intention because you can't have collective care without self-care. You can't have collective healing without self-healing.
Beth Berila: Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida: Because in [00:46:00] order to be that container, in order to not take things personally, in order to have the space to, to receive, we need to be clear, as clear as possible,
Beth Berila: Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida: aware as possible within ourselves in terms of what's happening, what's pulling at us, what our triggers are,
Beth Berila: Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida: self-regulate that.
Beth Berila: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Hermida: In order to meet the collective as well. Right. So they, to me, they're hand in. They go hand in hand, you know?
Beth Berila: like personal transformation and collective transformation go
Jonathan Hermida: Precisely, precisely,
Beth Berila: Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida: precisely. What was it like to go from the head to the heart, so to speak, from the, from the mind to the body when you started to do more somatic work and, and encountering perhaps, parts of your lived experience that you weren't so in tuned with before?
Beth Berila: it was a roller coaster and it, um, wasn't always comfortable. Fortunately, I had a strong support around me, um, which I would recommend for everyone. Bell Hooks [00:47:00] says we don't heal in isolation, we heal in community.
Jonathan Hermida: Yes.
Beth Berila: Um, I remember being in a yoga class and I would go there partly because I had just had some just like horrible personal ruptures and just kind of climbing my way out of that hole and trying to heal. And I went to this class because teacher seemed like she had a life I was interested in living. And the people. In the space we're doing their personal work. Like for me, all of these spiritual practices that I've mentioned, Buddhism, meditation, mindfulness, yoga, none of them are about what happens on the cushion or the mat so much as they are developing a relationship with yourself and the world around you to be how you wanna be off your mat or your cushion. It's the practice ground in many ways. And I was just like, everybody here is doing their work and that I wanna be around that. And I [00:48:00] remember I have a lot of lower back pain hip pain and so there are certain yoga poses that are my nemesis. anything back bendy would be that. And my teacher supported right behind my shoulder blades on my heart, be, you know, behind my heart and opened me into a back bend. And I sobbed.
Jonathan Hermida: Hmm.
Beth Berila: just like sobbed. Um. And it happened one other time, years and years ago before I had even really started this journey. My first experience with some somatic work, and my therapist had her hands on my head. again, just like that gentle holding, um, almost like saying, you don't have to think so hard to get out of this.
Right? It's really the secret is feeling, but the feeling after many years of armoring can be really unsettling. [00:49:00] Um, and so again, that, that it's significant that she was holding my heart and open me, opening me towards her, the way she did the assist. Like I was moving, my heart was opening towards her with all the people in the community on their own practice.
They weren't like paying attention to me. Um, so again, that like collective container, and there was a lot of that. Um, it has not been a smooth process and I have gone back and forth be, and this is one of the things academia can do. I have to constantly monitor being in my head so much. that it's a bad thing, it's, there's a lot of skill up here. Um, but it needs to be coming from the full being because for so long, my head, my strategizing, my hypervigilance was what was keeping me safe, but it also was cutting me off from all the other things. And so showing up as the whole self, including this inside of the head, but [00:50:00] all of the beings energetically and um, lineage wise has allowed for much the complexity you're talking about with a level of maturity to be in the unknowing. And trust that we're all being held by something bigger, even if we have like different beliefs about what that is. Um, we are being held. Like, I think for me, social justice is a large scale framework, much like a lot of spirituality is. It's something I can rest back in. Um, but then that emergence like, there, there are cycles of life that happen without our doing anything.
Like the flowers that are gonna grow up and the, know, the, the work happening in the soil under the snow right now, nature has insights and that's where I, I get a lot of my own spirituality from. Um, and so if I can rest back into that, [00:51:00] then I don't have to. It's the being rather than the doing.
Jonathan Hermida: Hmm, Hmm. What have you noticed that you, you know, you, the healing process is kind of going down and in and excavating and healing and going through this process, and then naturally what starts to emerge is this desire to give back in new ways. And so, in, in so many ways, your whole career has been about giving back and about, you know, uh, tending to society and to into individuals.
In what ways though, has your own healing journey sort of changed your purpose, your meaning, uh, and, and the work you want to be doing out in the world?
Beth Berila: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Good question. that's still evolving. I'm in a, I'm in a redefinition phase. Where I'm like, what do I wanna be when I grow up?
Jonathan Hermida: Right?
Beth Berila: Which is both terrifying and exciting. Um, at 55.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah.
Beth Berila: Um, I'm also embracing my Corona years, Jonathan.
Jonathan Hermida: Okay.
Beth Berila: well, I have earned it. I'm gonna be as weird as I wanna [00:52:00] be.
In fact, I
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah.
Beth Berila: A friend of mine said, trust your weirdness.
Jonathan Hermida: Yes. Yes.
Beth Berila: there's a part of me that's like, I need to make myself professionally recognizable. I need to be read as professional, and yet some of what I'm doing is countercultural. It's always been countercultural. And so it's not, not professional, but it's not recognized within the frameworks.
And so part of me is like, need the legitimacy of in a recognizable framework. But the other part of me is like that recognizable framework is not gonna help the world that you want to emerge, right? Is not gonna support that kind of emergence. We need to allow space for different ways of being, and to recognize that those two are valid.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah.
Beth Berila: So, um, healing? Well, I mean, I teach by sharing a lot of my process with students, not to suggest that it's the same as theirs, but because a lot of traditionally aged college [00:53:00] students put their professors on pedestals and think they have it all together and I'm like, you do not see behind the scenes of academia. Wow.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah. Yeah.
Beth Berila: just kind of like, yeah, I didn't know I didn't have it together at 20 Heck, y'all have it way more together than I had.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah.
Beth Berila: And, uh, and just kind of like, a lot of the missteps are the journey, and this is one of the things I love about DCI and feminism and yoga and somatics. It's interesting.
I keep being drawn to these particular modalities, all of which in their own way, say the journey is the work, not, not the end point. Which we may or not may not get to at our, in our lifetimes, but like how you get to the end point matters because it's gonna shape where you can go.
Jonathan Hermida: Hmm.
Beth Berila: And so helping students say, you know, recognize those vulnerabilities, those learned messages, [00:54:00] those, know, situations that didn't go so well are learning moments.
Jonathan Hermida: Hmm
Beth Berila: we get to choose, do we wanna grow from this? Do we wanna shut down from this? And sometimes we don't have a choice, like it's because it's traumatizing. I, again, I see this as kind of planting the seed. There were many things I've learned along my way that I wasn't ready for in the moment,
Jonathan Hermida: hmm.
Beth Berila: their little seed was germinating in the soil.
And when I really needed it, I knew it was there, and then I went deeper.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah.
Beth Berila: think the other thing my healing journey taught me is that there have been several moments in my life that were, I guess, for lack of a better word, pivot moments. Where there was this path I was supposed to take and maybe I knew how to play that path.
Well, I was an overachiever, remember, but something in me was telling me that wasn't the right path. Something that I couldn't name. I keep referring to like my naval core, [00:55:00] like, 'cause that's where the inner wisdom is held for me. Um, something in me was, would whisper, there's another way. And that other way resonates with you.
And I often had to just trust it and leap because every, all the people around me were like, don't do that, don't do that. That's not how it's done.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah.
Beth Berila: And yet every time I did it was terrifying. It sometimes moved through moments of lack of support or lots of self-questioning on certain levels, but on other levels there was this like, yeah, this is right. it took my life in ways I could not have imagined.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah.
Beth Berila: Helped me do what I believe is my purpose in the world. And I think we all need to find our own purpose to contribute to that collective good. We're not all supposed to play the same role. And so for me, knowing has also shaped supporting other people in their journey and how to hold space for that.
How to help them listen to and [00:56:00] find that thread, even if it's really, really faint. How to cultivate practices that stay in touch with that thread. Because days it's gonna whisper and you're gonna be really enticed to go the familiar way. So how do we maintain enough of a relationship with that thread that we can stay the course or come back as a new beginning if we lose our course, um, and follow what we're really meant to do.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah. It's interesting you were speaking in past terms when you were saying, you know, basically trusting and there's another way, and, and, and that unfolding and I couldn't. All I can hear was there's an emergence happening in your life right now.
Beth Berila: It's
Jonathan Hermida: Can you,
Beth Berila: tense.
Jonathan Hermida: that's not past tense. Can you trust that? And, and, and what's beautiful about that is that you've already had proof in your life
Beth Berila: Hmm.
Jonathan Hermida: that that abstract sense sense that you have inside of you can be trusted,
Beth Berila: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Hermida: right?
And, and so there is [00:57:00] something that is emerging within you that doesn't necessarily fit into a box. You know that you can be as weird as you wanna be and there is a place for that and the world. And that's in fact what's needed. Because why else has your unfolding happened in the way that it has, if not for you to be going back to your sparkle, for you to sparkle in a positive sense, in your fullest light,
Beth Berila: Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida: taking everything that you've accumulated, everything that you've learned, and now give that back.
Beth Berila: Good reflection. So deep coachy of you. That
Jonathan Hermida: is what,
Beth Berila: Yes,
Jonathan Hermida: here.
Beth Berila: yes, it's true. It is very much in the present tense. Um, I, uh, so I'm in the career shift. I've been moving in this path for a while, hence going into the deep coach training, in 2020. So that's what, five years. but it's really being catalyzed.
The universe seems to be like, okay, you're not gonna do this on your own. Well, [00:58:00] we're gonna kick you out of the nest. Um, that's a generous way of describing my university closed all the social justice programs that's happening around the world or around the country anyway. Um, and laid many faculty off, including me. so because I have family here. I can't follow a job. It's gotta be in the geographical region I'm in. and so it's, you know, it's a, uh, this year going back to teaching has very complex. I'm, I'm allowing a lot of grief to move through me,
Jonathan Hermida: Mm.
Beth Berila: um, for the organization, for all the people who are it. It isn't just me and also for me. then I think the grief is collective also in that, you know, not sure the world has reckoned yet with the impact of COVID and the fact that so many of our grief rituals are collective. And yet we couldn't do that [00:59:00] in the same way during COVID and then all the things that are happening since then.
And I think US culture as a dominant culture really doesn't allow a lot of space for grief. Um, and so there are pockets of people who do it really well and communities who do it really well. But, um. Like a lot of people, unless they're in the real grief space, they don't necessarily wanna talk about it, but it's often there,
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah.
Beth Berila: and there's a deep sense of possibility of like, yep, I've actually been probably ready for this for a while.
And, um, kind of weaving together the different I, you know, the different threads of my experience so that I don't have to be just one.
Jonathan Hermida: Hmm.
Beth Berila: which I think is also needed in this world. Like how are we called in different places in different moments to show up in our heartfelt way with each other? Um, and what of our different experiences or
Jonathan Hermida: [01:00:00] Yeah,
Beth Berila: allow for that? Like I can move back and forth between heady political analysis and heartfelt pain and grief and possibility and hope and quirky magic. Um, and it seems like we probably need all of that from all of us. Right?
Jonathan Hermida: Speaking of that, I, I, we are so, the world is gonna be, so many individuals within this, in this world are gonna continue to be displaced given technology, given just the, the shifting world order. There's just so many things happening. And so the other layer here is that you are. Kind of going through the gauntlet yourself of walking into the unknown, into the mystery, acquiring the skillset of doing that
Beth Berila: Mm.
Jonathan Hermida: so that you can also be a light show
Beth Berila: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Hermida: that will at some point feel displaced, feel disoriented, not know that there, if there is something that can be trusted in terms of an unfolding in their life.
Beth Berila: Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida: And so it's, it's, it, [01:01:00] it's never comfortable. None of us wanna go through any of this. And yet for somebody like you who is so, so service oriented, who, who's here, who's purpose is to give back to the world you are walking the trail
Beth Berila: Hmm
Jonathan Hermida: will eventually illuminate things for others.
Beth Berila: Hmm. Thank you. That's very kind and helpful way of framing it. Yeah. I think one of the deep somatic learnings that I learned both through DCI and through um, one of the lineages of somatics that I study, which is generative somatics and Strozzi Institute, they talk about when you're changing shapes, like, and by shape they mean like your fundamental core way of showing up in the world. When you're doing that deep transformation, you kind of leave the shore the familiar, but you're not automatically on the next shore. You're not automatically in the new shape, and in fact there might be lots of [01:02:00] poles back. You're in open water of uncertainty and that's really unsettling.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah.
Beth Berila: And often the familiar feels comfortable, even if it no longer serves you or the community or the collective. And I've, I think for me, I can stay on it longer in the unknown because I've done it before and I know that it sucks, but there is another side,
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah.
Beth Berila: and it's worth it. And I have the practices to, to rip myself to be able to rest back into are so important. Um, and I have the community that I've built over the years, many different pockets of community that can hold space for that people who are on their own journeys, but with a similar kind of value set of what, where we wanna go, how we wanna create a better world for people. [01:03:00] And so. You know, I can nourish and grow that and help others do the same. And I think about, you know, the great Gracely Boggs who recently passed a hundred year old American activist who said, talked about building, um, instead of building mile wide inch deep movements, we need mile deep inch wide movements. Right? So we go deep and we build the connections where we are. And then my inch wide mile deep connects with your inch wide mile deep connects
Jonathan Hermida: Right.
Beth Berila: connects with Kate's, connects
Jonathan Hermida: That's right. That's right.
Beth Berila: it's all written instead of so kind of superficial, it can easily be unsettled.
Jonathan Hermida: Yes.
Beth Berila: Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida: In fact, I, that's such a great point. I do feel that that's where we're heading just to really hyper focus on the here and everybody, everybody's individual here and now,
Beth Berila: hmm.
Jonathan Hermida: meaning tending to what's right in front of us.
Beth Berila: [01:04:00] Hmm.
Jonathan Hermida: There's enough in this world happening
Beth Berila: Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida: that, what else can we do, but tend to what's in front of us, our own divine curriculum, so to speak.
Beth Berila: I love that. Our own divine curriculum, whatever that means to each person. Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida: That's right. That's right. That's right.
Beth Berila: we forge these threads together, these relations? How do we connect with our own hearts
Jonathan Hermida: Yes.
Beth Berila: own healing work so that we can show up in the ways we want to in collectives? do we understand what's ours and what's not? Um, in terms of like, can't do someone else's work, but I can support them,
Jonathan Hermida: Yes.
Beth Berila: like, that's something that's being projected on me by socialized norms that do doesn't feel right, like that tuning into the inner self. Maybe I've outgrown that stricture. Um, how do I, you know, so many social justice activists right now are talk, uh, using visionary fiction and science fiction to world [01:05:00] build. they're like, of us know what a world without oppression is. Like, haven't lived it, not in this lifetime, maybe in years ago, ancestor lifetime. how do we imagine radical imagination a different world? and I do believe that following that emergence where that aliveness is attuning to that energy in yourself and in the world, and that, and I, I, on a certain level, I feel like that's what DCI was for me, like that community, like there's something alive here.
There's a beautiful container that seems to be able to hold a lot, though there's, the world is in flux and we're learning a lot right now. Right. Still there was like a, oh, it's like this, like radar. Like, oh, there's something here.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah.
Beth Berila: And then how do we, from that place. Move outward, tend to what's in front of us.
From that clear as [01:06:00] clear as possible. Authentic self. Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida: That is the work
Beth Berila: self, I guess. Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida: and collective self. Yeah. As we bring this conversation to a close, if, if you can leave listeners with one
Beth Berila: Mm.
Jonathan Hermida: sort of tidbit insight practice to help them on their own transformational journey, what might that be?
Beth Berila: Who are you being called be in this moment and how do you know that?
Jonathan Hermida: I just wanna leave that for folks to sit with because it is something to be digested and such a beautiful invitation.
Beth Berila: Yeah. Who
Jonathan Hermida: Beth,
Beth Berila: be in this moment and how do you know that? Hmm. Hmm.
Jonathan Hermida: such a gift to be here with you. Thank you for sharing so much of yourself.
Beth Berila: Thank [01:07:00] you for going on the ride with me
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah.
Beth Berila: beautiful space.
Jonathan Hermida: Yeah. It was wonderful. Thank you. Thank you, Beth.
Beth Berila: with you and thank you for all these beautiful conversations. You're hosting Stone
Jonathan Hermida: Thank you so much.
Beth Berila: Of course.