How can human potential actually be measured—and once it is, how do we use that insight to live, lead, and serve more fully? In this episode of The Deep Coach, Jonathan Hermida speaks with Mark Vandeneijnde, co-founder of Being at Full Potential, about bringing objectivity to inner development without losing its soul—and why trust, awareness, and sensitivity may be the most essential leadership capacities in an AI-driven world.
How can human potential actually be measured? And once it’s measured, what can you actually do with that information?
In this episode of The Deep Coach, Jonathan Hermida sits down with Mark Vandeneijnde, co-founder of Being at Full Potential and creator of the Human Potential & IDG assessment platforms, to explore a bold question: Can we bring objectivity to inner development—without losing its soul?
Mark shares his deeply human journey—from feeling misaligned in the corporate world, to embracing sensitivity as a gift, to building one of the most holistic frameworks for understanding human potential today. Together, Jonathan and Mark explore trust, awareness, inspiration, abundance, service, and why these inner capacities may be the defining skills of leadership in an AI-driven world.
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Mark Vandeneijnde: one of the big shifts that happened within me was realizing that human potential development is a human right, a basic human right. That we all have been given a gift and we all have the right and the, we should all have the ability to express that gift, but we don't all have, the resources and the ability to hire a coach and to, go to trainings and workshops.
So I started to reframe this whole human potential work and the assessment through that lens,
Jonathan Hermida: Welcome to the Deep Coach, the podcast where we explore the transformational journeys that shape us and that propel us to change the world. I'm your host, Jonathan Aida, and in each episode we sit down with those who have journeyed into the depths of spiritual transformation and who are now reshaping the world through their presence and their work, and listening to these incredible human beings.
You'll find insight, inspiration, and practical tools to support your journey as a coach and as a human being. Today's guest is Mark [00:01:00] Vanda. Co-founder of being at Full Potential and creator of the Human Potential and IDG assessment platforms. Mark is an incredible guy, and in this episode we talk about his time working in a corporate environment and how he mustered up the courage to quit his job without having a secure landing, all while having two young kids to take care of.
So imagine that we then talk about his entrepreneurial challenges and how he eventually emerged resilient as ever, and created one of the most holistic frameworks for understanding human potential today. We go into how human potential is actually measured and how to use that data to improve your life.
And we also talk about how the future is going to ask us to become more human in the age of AI than ever. This is a wonderful conversation. Let's dive in.
Jonathan Hermida: , Mark, it is so good to be here with you as we do in this, podcast. we talk about the transformational journeys that have defined the person that we're now listening to and sitting across from. you think of Mark prior to the onset of your own [00:02:00] transformational journey, how would you describe who Mark was in that time?
Mark Vandeneijnde: So it would've been pre 2010 and there was, there was already quite some depth to mark, to myself, and, but it was kind of compartmentalized in certain aspects of my life. Like I would say whenever I'd be around good friends. There would be always deep, meaningful conversations. And, uh, you know, that's what I, I thrived in those, in those places.
Uh, but then there was another side that, you know, was kind of caught up in, you know, the corporate rat race. I mean, that's a bit, it's a bit of a strong word, but, you know, the, the corporate world where there was these expectations and sort of, uh, um, societal definitions of success, you know, that I was struggling with and, and [00:03:00] didn't quite make sense to me, but I didn't know any other way.
Uh, so there was, you know, there was definitely confusion, um, about how to reconcile these things. Like, on the one hand, I, I had a feeling like when I was really alive and when I was having impact, and on the other hand there was this whole side of, you know, big part of big chunk of my life that just felt a misaligned kind of, yeah, out of touch with it.
Jonathan Hermida (2): You mentioned there was.
Mark Vandeneijnde: A bit fragmented. Fragmented might be a nice, uh, way to summarize it.
Jonathan Hermida: big fra Yeah, fragmented. That, that resonates with me as, as, you know, marker of my own, during my own time. How, so? You mentioned that there was already some depth to Mark. What, when did, when would you say that depth began? When did you start sort of questioning life and with life at a deeper level?
Mark Vandeneijnde: You know,
I would say that the, the earliest memories, vivid memories probably were when I [00:04:00] was like 10, 11 years old. And I would, I have memories of being, you know, in before going to sleep, like in, in my, in my room, in my bed, and actually, um, like holding people that I knew were suffering in the world. You know, that I would see on the evening news or, you know, you just sort of like, pick up on all these things and, and actually make a prayer for them.
Like, I, I remember actually praying in, in my mind, you know, that, um, people would find peace and, and, and happiness and, and it was a daily thing. I remember it was a daily thing and it was nothing ev ev anyone ever told me or taught me or it was just something that came very natural. And, and I often reflect back on those things.
And I think that was really the beginning of. [00:05:00] When I look back, it's the beginning of of, of seeing the sense, you know, the sensitivity that I think is quite core to who I am. And I didn't acknowledge it then. I didn't understand it, I didn't talk about it like that. But it was around that time, 2010 that I was talking about, you know, where the transformation happened is where I started to embrace more and more that side of me.
Recognize it, acknowledge it, see it as a gift rather than something to fix. Um, and that was really, I think, uh, quite an important, um, yeah, quite an important transformational moment for me.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Hmm. Before we get there, you know, you got into the corporate world first. What was driving you to make the decision to enter into the corporate world? What was your North Star at the time?
Mark Vandeneijnde: it was, um, just not really knowing anything else, you know, that was, uh. Also my choice of what to study at university was kind of a default choice. It's, [00:06:00] um, it was the easy one. It was the one I didn't have to think about too much. Um, you know, I looked at my, my family, my father, my, you know, my parents and sort of, yeah, just saying feel, thinking like, okay, well that's how I was raised.
That's what I saw in my father, so, you know, that's what I should be doing as well. So there was not a lot of conscious thought about it. It was more, you know, I ended up in business school and then I ended up in a corporate, which, you know, that's a whole story in itself. Like, I, I, I don't know how they actually hired me because it was a whole bunch of different events that led to it.
But I, I never felt like I was qualified for it. I never felt like this is, this is, this is, um, something that I deserved, if you like, it sounds a bit strange, but yeah, it was. I just ended up there.
Jonathan Hermida (2): How did you reconcile that during your career?
Mark Vandeneijnde: Um,[00:07:00]
there was a, I ended up, I I, at the end, I did end up in an area of the business that, that there were quite a few things that I, I enjoyed because it was in, in research and consumer research, so there was actually a lot of opportunity to go out and speak to people and understand their needs and, you know, understand how they use the products and why they use the products.
And so that whole piece of interacting with the outside world, with the consumers, the people who are using the, the products and, and then trying, you know, and then finding ways to, uh, build that into the, into the innovation pipeline and all. Like, I st I kind of found a little bit of a niche there where I was pretty good at it and there were aspects of it that I really enjoyed, but there was always.
Especially later on, there was this sort of sense of what for, you know, just to sell more of X. Right? And, and it was like people, you know, these people that you'd go and speak [00:08:00] to sometimes for hours, they would open up and talk about their lives and their hopes and dreams and every, you know, the only thing that I was had to think about is how can I make more money off of this?
Right? It's like, how do you utilize these insights to sell more? And at the end it was, it was, yeah. It just, it, it was not that inspiring. But the work itself was very interesting. You know, the insight, uncovering insights, getting to know people, understanding their deeper motivations. And that was, I think, what opened then the door to coaching everything else.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Yeah. Yeah. But something happened in 2010 that had, you remember, reconnect with that deeper aspect of yourself. What, what was it
Mark Vandeneijnde: Hmm.
Jonathan Hermida (2): in 2010 in particular?
Mark Vandeneijnde: So a few things. One is I, I discovered coaching back in 2008, and I first by being coached myself, so I, I went through a whole coaching process [00:09:00] and, uh, discovered my values, you know, something called life purpose, which I had no idea even existed, right? But like, to be connected to something much bigger, like why am I here?
You know, being able to answer that question and not just answer it intellectually, but actually feel like, yeah, there, there is a purpose to my life. And, uh, and a big thing, what I was mentioning before is this, this whole sensitivity thing, which for most of my life I was being told, you're too sensitive.
You're just, you're too sensitive. Why are you so sensitive? And, and so it, it, it really started to feel like that was a, a deficit, you know, something that, um, was a hindrance that I had to fix or I had to sort of overcome and. And then I, um, you know, I, through the coaching and, and through this, this personal journey, I discovered, you know, that sensitivity is actually a gift, right?
If it, when it's harnessed right? And when it's, um, [00:10:00] channeled in productive ways, that it can be a tremendous gift of being able to sense into things and u use that information, right? Because it's, that's what it is. It gives you more information to be able to, um, yeah, to do things with that. So I, that was a big part of embracing actually myself more in my wholeness rather than seeing it as, you know, there's things that need to be fixed.
And it was not just friends and family that would often tell me about the sensitivity, but it was al also feedback I'd get at work. And also a lot of things around leadership like. I was told, you need to speak up more, right? And I'm like, well, yeah, I'll speak up when I have something to say, but no, no, you need to speak up.
You need to be visible. You need to stand out. And, and, and it was that, that type of leadership that just never felt right. You know, it was always like, something is not right with this. And yeah, and I guess I started to make [00:11:00] sense of, of it, started to understand it. Um, and that was really, I think, uh, quite a big turning point.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Hmm.
Mark Vandeneijnde: Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (2): how else did the sensitivity show up in the workplace?
Mark Vandeneijnde: Yeah. I, you know, I.
I mean, it, it helped me a lot when I would go out and, and do the research. I think I was always really good at, at picking up on the, what is not being said as well, you know, like how, how am I feeling when I'm interacting with this person? What does it mean? And, and sort of taking that into account as well when we're doing the analysis and the findings.
So I think I was doing that. I think I also was pretty good at reading, like team dynamics, you know, where there was tension in the [00:12:00] team and,
Jonathan Hermida (2): I.
Mark Vandeneijnde: um, but I would hold it all to myself. Like I had no way of, of expressing it, of sharing it, of I didn't know what to do with it. Right. So it would be things, other people's tensions, energy that I would pick up and it would just sit with me and I wouldn't have a, a very good outlet for it.
I didn't know how to. To work with it and it, and I guess it did start to feel like a heavy load, you know, at times. And I went, I, I was, that period felt very heavy. It was definitely not a, you know, sort of transformational, very light. Everything was great. It was, there was a lot of things that I didn't know how to process.
There was a heaviness to that.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Yeah. And a questioning, you know, and, and, and perhaps not even in a questioning, in an open way. More questioning like, why, why? You know, what's wrong with me? What's, you know, what's,
Mark Vandeneijnde: Yeah,
Jonathan Hermida (2): don't I fit into this environment? You know, things like that. I imagine.
Mark Vandeneijnde: yeah, yeah,
Jonathan Hermida (2): to go off on an entrepreneurial journey in that time.
Mark Vandeneijnde: [00:13:00] yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Tell us, tell me more, or tell
Mark Vandeneijnde: Oh.
Jonathan Hermida (2): about that, that decision.
Mark Vandeneijnde: Yeah, it was, uh, it was amazing actually because I, I, 2008 is when I started my coaching training and it took about a year and a half, two years. So by the time 2010 came, I was certified. I had my, yeah, my a CCI was certified in, and I think that was a sort of a big part, um, of feeling ready. And I started to get sort of a sense of how I could, um, contribute back to the organizational world.
'cause I was quite passionate about serving organizations and bringing out more of the potential, even though I didn't really use that word yet. But it was something like, there's, there's things here that are untapped and through coaching I can bring that out. Right. I was starting to discover coaching and.
Jonathan Hermida (2): I.
Mark Vandeneijnde: It was building up the, the [00:14:00] sense of, okay, I need to step out. I need to step out. And one day I unannounced, you know, also not aligned with my family. I, uh, I, I told my boss at the time, I said, um, I'm, I'm resigning. And, and it just came out like it was, yeah, it was, it was very much in the moment, uh, Jonathan, it was, uh, it was, it was quite, quite amazing when I think back, back it, and then of course, you know, going back home and sharing that with my wife and, and then the reality settles in and it's like, okay, now what?
Right. And, but it was building up, but it was not something that I had aligned that I'd planned, that I'd said, you know, that I was kind of really ready for. I mean, no, actually I was ready for it, but it was spontaneous at the same time you.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Which is interesting because you have two small kids at the time.[00:15:00]
Mark Vandeneijnde: Yeah,
Jonathan Hermida (2): are you relating to that? Like on the one hand, there's this impulse, this knowing that I need to leave this situation. On the other hand, there's a stability, financial and otherwise stability that comes with staying in the job, which benefits growing.
A small family, obviously.
Mark Vandeneijnde: yeah,
Jonathan Hermida (2): So how did
Mark Vandeneijnde: yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (2): did you relate to that in that moment?
Mark Vandeneijnde: You know, there was a, there was a, a huge tension on the family. My wife and I were both working full time, both in the same company as well. We would be dropping the kids off at seven in the morning. We'd pick them up at seven at night, and everything was rush, rush, rush. There was just tremendous amount of stress and they were young, and it was like, I really have this feeling like why?
Um, why even have kids if you can't spend quality time with it? Right. And, and, and I knew deep down that something had to change. Like it was gonna break. Something was gonna break unless there was a [00:16:00] significant change. So that was a big part of me making the decision to lead because I knew my wife wasn't going to do it.
She, you know, was enjoying her job. She's quite career-minded. And, and so if something was going to change from that standpoint, it was, it was going to be me. And I think that was a big part of it. It was the family, it was the kids, it was my desire to be with them. It was my desire to create more space for all of this as well as a sense of what I could potentially be creating once I'm outside of that, you know, the entrepreneurial aspect.
But I would say it was maybe more for the wellbeing of the family
Jonathan Hermida (2): Hmm.
Mark Vandeneijnde: first. The entrepreneurial thing sort of secondary.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Hmm.
Mark Vandeneijnde: Um, then, you know, I had this grand idea and I was going to go and, you know, build something and that's why I was leaving.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Was,
Mark Vandeneijnde: Yeah,
Jonathan Hermida (2): idea clear already or was it vague, but you knew you were [00:17:00] gonna build something?
Mark Vandeneijnde: I, I had, I had my idea, but it was, it was not a calibrated idea to the market. It was something that was inside of me and that I was really excited about. But when I would start sharing with people, they would look at me kind of very confused. Um, and so, you know, even the way I talked about the work and how I was labeling it, all of it was just based on my deep passion and excitement and everything that I'd been learning around coaching.
Um, but I, I wasn't taking into account sort of meeting people where they were. That was really the, um. You know, my, my company was called Inner Voice calling. Inner voice calling. And, and I wanted to work with companies, businesses, and the idea was like, we'll help you find your inner voice as a company, right?
The inner voice of what you stand for. [00:18:00] Um, and it just, it was just, uh, you know, people, like the first people that I would go and speak to are of course people that knew me and trusted me from the work environment. And there were, you know, suppliers and contacts that I had. And, you know, they would give me opportunities to come and talk to them and share what I was doing.
And, and even though they really wanted to help me, they were like, you know, I, we can't, it's, it's not, it's not tangible enough, right? It's not, uh, um, I, I, I can't hire you, you know, in that capacity right now. Uh, and that took about a good year, year and a half. Just trying and coming to the realization that something, you know, that I'm, I'm deeply passionate and everyone admired that, but it was also, there was a, a blockage there.
And so that was my first, uh, sort of big questioning after [00:19:00] stepping out. Um, yeah. And then just to get back on your question about the family, there was a big renegotiation of, um, sort of, yeah. Of the, the, um, recalibration of the family, the whole thing, right. Uh, going from double income to single income. Um, you know, my wife trying to understand what it is I was doing, why I was doing it, my family, my friends, you know.
So there was a, a huge sort of moment of. Transitioning happen in that realm as well. So on the outside, the business was sort of blocking and within was also a lot of confusion, you know, like what's going on with Mark, that type of thing.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Yeah, so you, you get to the end of this year long experiment, more or less year long, and it's not handing out in the way that you had [00:20:00] anticipated or wanted, which I imagine creates an additional inner tension, but also tension within the family. How, what, what was your thinking towards the end of that sort of year, year and a half stretch of, okay, what,
Mark Vandeneijnde: Yeah,
Jonathan Hermida (2): now?
Mark Vandeneijnde: yeah, yeah. So I would say the big thing is, is was a shift from thinking that I knew what was needed to going back into a mode of not knowing. Right. So I, I was very confident that I had exactly the solutions and I, I had the answers to really unlock breakthroughs within companies. Um, but nobody understood it.
So the big shift was when I, I took a step back and said, well, maybe I don't know, or I don't know it well enough, and let me go back into the mode of not knowing and let [00:21:00] me go and, and talk to people and learn from them and listen to them and understand what their needs are and do some research. And I come from a research background, right?
So I was in market research. So I would say one of the big shifts is when I went back into research mode and ended up doing a sort of, I ended up being a, a documentary film on. Heart in business. So understanding what does it mean to bring heart into business. And I went to speak to, you know, people from all different aspect parts of, you know, some science from the science realm, some, um, more coming at it from a spiritual side, some people in business who had stories to tell.
And, uh, yeah, I worked with a filmmaker, documentary filmmaker, and we ended up creating this, this 15 minute film, which brought really to life, um, my vision, but through the stories of other people. And [00:22:00] it was like a rite of passage. Uh, Jonathan, it was like me going through that rite of passage and it really shifted the way that I engaged with prospects and potential clients.
Um, and it, and it was, you know, it was, it was all of a sudden it wasn't anymore about telling them what they should do and, and how I could help them. But it was more about listening to them and starting a conversation and sharing, you know, the insights of this research with them. And, and it was all about dialogue.
And that's when things started to get unstuck. And that's when people started to show interest. Right? It's like, oh, you know, there's, there's an interesting story here. You know, I want to listen to, I want to know more about, there is a, that that was a big moment. Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (2): I wanna, I wanna sit here for a moment 'cause there's so many important points. You know, when I, when I think about our audience, there's many, there are many coaches out there that really wanna make it, they wanna start their business, [00:23:00] want to venture out and, and they have their stable job, you know, but they sense there's something more.
And, and I know I can do more. I know there's more impact. There's something within me pulling me. But, but, but, but, you know, money and, and stability and security. What do you think it was inside of you that gave you such confidence within the unknown? Because to say, to be in a position where you would go down to a single income household, the first sort of ideation of your venture doesn't quite work out, and you're like, okay, now I need to go into the unknown. I could just imagine listeners being like, Ugh. Like, how, how do you, how do you trust life yourself? You know, what you have inside of you enough in that moment continue forward.
Mark Vandeneijnde: I think by that time, you know, a year or two years had gone by the benefits of me being at home. Were starting to become visible to everyone, you know, to [00:24:00] the kids, to my wife. She was starting to see that there was, that the actual, the quality of life was starting to go up, you know, the income. Had gone down.
But that was also super interesting is the realization how, you know, happiness and income are correlated maybe to, up, up to a certain extent, but then beyond that it, it, it doesn't correlate anymore. And, and I think we, you know, we had gone beyond that point where, where there was a, you know, an increase in happiness.
Um, and so by, by stripping things down and a lot of costs were, we, we were able to save a lot because we used to have to, you know, pay for daycare and for, you know, the nanny that would pick 'em up and drop 'em off and all these things, you know, would, would not, no longer be needed. And it just started to feel like, Hey, we can still do what we like doing.
You know, we can still go on holiday once in a while where, you know, we're actually [00:25:00] living pretty good life. So all of that fear initially where you think like, oh, I need this, you know, we've had this, so we need this. Uh, started to, to lessen. Um, you know, the, the relationship with the kids was, was way better.
You know, you could see them starting to thrive and, uh, and my wife was starting to kind of, even though she was really not interested in what I was doing per se, but she was starting to see that this whole rearrangement of the family dynamic actually had quite some benefits as well. So I would say, you know, it's, it's, yes, you know, you don't want to put anything at risk in terms of, you know, your ability to take care of your family, but at the same time, there are cases where you may have more than you need
Jonathan Hermida (2): Hmm.
Mark Vandeneijnde: and that, you know, scaling back income actually, um.
It can be a good thing. You [00:26:00] start to value things also a lot more.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Yeah. Yeah. I've also found that with boldness, with risk taking, you would never saw where the ground could possibly come from, some ground always comes. I've, I've noticed it with my own journey in my own life. I've noticed it with other clients and people that I've worked with, with, I've even noticed it with people, not on any particular inner journey that they're freaking out, oh my God, where's, you know, there there's no light at the end of the tunnel.
What's gonna happen? What's gonna happen? There's
Mark Vandeneijnde: Hmm.
Jonathan Hermida (2): something. Some way, maybe it's a hand, maybe it's, uh, an unknown opportunity, but if we never take the risk to venture off into the unknown, you can't possibly know what's what's possible. We're gonna be speaking about human potential shortly, and I know trust plays a role in maximizing our human potential, and so being able to trust in something deeper, that there is something working itself out. know, especially for those of us that are on this journey and [00:27:00] calibrating towards alignment with
Mark Vandeneijnde: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I totally agree. And I think part of what kept me going is that, you know, what I was sharing before that very strong sense of purpose. Um, you know, when I, when I found out about, more about who, who I am and, and why am I here and life purpose and all this, it was such an anchor and it gave me so much strength, and it gave me a lot of courage.
And, you know, it's like the boldness sort of comes from that. I, I, I felt that really the boldness is, there's something here supporting me. There's something here that is speaking to me, that is telling me that, yes, take the next step. Yes, take the next step.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Yeah.
Mark Vandeneijnde: There's, there's support. You might not see the support, you might not understand how it works, but there is support here.
There's that ground underneath the feet that will keep showing up. So [00:28:00] I, I, I did feel that quite deeply.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Yeah.
Mark Vandeneijnde: Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (2): So then you ha this documentary and insights come from it. What are the main insights that came from these interviews that you had with folks?
Mark Vandeneijnde: One that stands out is, uh, how, how we are storytellers and, and, and how, and how reality is actually the story that we tell and, and becoming aware that, that we can become active storytellers. That's one. Insight that was so powerful for me, and it made so much sense. And, and if we want to change something, we need to tell a new story.
And we need to tell it in a way that it's, it's really coming from our deeper [00:29:00] belief. Um, and it impacts everything. It impacts our language, it impacts our mindset, how we look at things, how we deal with things. Uh, so starting to tell new stories, and for me it was the story of success. That was one of the big changes.
Um, and how I talked about success, how I thought about success.
Jonathan Hermida (2): How
Mark Vandeneijnde: Uh,
Jonathan Hermida (2): it, and then how did you begin talking about it?
Mark Vandeneijnde: so I talked about it in the same way that I was conditioned to talk about it at the beginning, after stepping out of the corporate. And it was, you know. It was not how many, how many widgets have you sold? But it's, it's how many clients have you signed up? Right? And how many clients do you plan to sign up and what is, you know, how many years do I need to be able to get the same level of income as I had before?
And so there was this whole mapping and planning and, you know, [00:30:00] checking every quarter, like where am I, you know, like that whole, that whole thing of being able to predict and to lay out. Uh, and, you know, this was a whole new paradigm I was stepping into, right? There was not a, there was not a clear path on how to do things, and I didn't even know exactly what I was going to be creating.
So it, that was part of where it all fell apart, of course. 'cause you're not gonna meet any of those, those criteria and then all of a sudden you're sitting there and you're like, well, is this a failure? On one hand, yes, it's a failure, but on the other hand, no, this is a, this is a much bigger journey that I've said yes to.
And you know, this is just a very, very first step. And so, you know, this move back into not knowing and becoming a researcher and putting on that research mindset and going and speaking to people, people, that was, that became my new definition of success. So the more conversations I [00:31:00] can have, the more people I can talk to, the more, um, I can listen and engage and open up, you know, like it was much more about the quality of the engagement that I would define success on, because I knew that the more quality engagements you have, that the more things are gonna happen, right?
The more opportunities will come. So I put my focus much more on the quality of the, um, of the relationship. And that came a lot from just being really curious and interested. Uh, and learning and, and then people wanted to also learn from me so that, that, that just happened naturally.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Yeah.
Mark Vandeneijnde: And then, you know, I guess the other part was the whole family thing, you know, prioritizing that and thinking about success as being able to spend time more, much more quality time with my kids as they grow up. 'cause it happens so [00:32:00] quickly and before you know it, they're gone. And I didn't want to be the person that looks back on his life and said, oh, I wish I I'd done that.
Or I wish I'd spent more time with my kids. That's the one thing I, I know I will never, ever, uh, say, I'll never have that regret.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Yeah, it's powerful, powerful, powerful shift in many ways.
Mark Vandeneijnde: Yeah, so success became a, a, a very different concept for me, and I, and I started talking about it very differently, and I think that's sort of the new type of story, you know, the storytelling. Um,
yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (2): How did it begin
Mark Vandeneijnde: Yeah. And I spoke, I, I, I actually got to speak with the CEO of HeartMath Institute as well. I don't know if you're familiar with
Jonathan Hermida (2): I am, but
Mark Vandeneijnde: HeartMath.
Jonathan Hermida (2): that aren't familiar, can you share what.
Mark Vandeneijnde: Well, yeah. They, they've really taken, I think, a very scientific approach to understanding the intelligence of the heart [00:33:00] and being able to measure, they have these devices that can measure coherence and, uh, heart resonance.
And, and they've been able to show that, you know, the, the frequency of the heart has, you know, is very expansive and it can absorb and, you know, um, um, pick up on much more information. So, uh, that was a fascinating part of, you know, the heart in business, um, project, right? Research project and the fact that there was science behind it.
And that, you know, the whole idea that intuition is, you know, it's part of that, the, the resonance of the heart, right? It's us tapping into, into that intuitive, knowing how valuable that is in a business environment, especially in an environment where there's more and more uncertainty, right? There's more and more valid, you know, the vuca, right?
[00:34:00] The uncertain, the co, the complex world that we live in. There's so many limits to what we can figure out just with our mental capacities, right? And, and, and there's this whole side of knowing that is, you know, pretty much shut down in the business world. And to be able to talk about that, that it's. It's a resource that is totally underutilized.
And, and that is what, what is part of hard and business is awakening that, that side of ours, that ability that we have and, and allowing it to become more vocal in the, you know, decision making processes. And, um, so yeah, that was a very, yeah, that was a really, I think, important insight and to be able to have somebody else speak about it, right?
Like a, an expert, somebody who has been years and years of research and science behind it. I think showing that to people in business, it was like [00:35:00] a wow, right? Because
yeah, it sort of gives a little bit of evidence to things that deep down we know, but we don't acknowledge because it's sort of like out there, you know? So to make it. Give it a bit more gravitas was, uh, was very helpful.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Yeah, because one of your challenges was making the intangible, tangible for these organizations, like, why should we
Mark Vandeneijnde: Exactly.
Jonathan Hermida (2): the actual benefit hiring
Mark Vandeneijnde: Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (2): to understand this inner voice? What does that even mean?
Mark Vandeneijnde: Yeah,
Jonathan Hermida (2): So then at one point you develop your own measurement system.
Mark Vandeneijnde: yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (2): you tell us more about the, the being
Mark Vandeneijnde: And
Jonathan Hermida (2): assessment?
Mark Vandeneijnde: Yeah. And, and this is, uh, this is where a lot of that research came into handy because there was so much analysis that we did afterwards and there was sort of mapping and different clusters and [00:36:00] things like, okay, this, this whole heart business thing, it's, it's huge. It's a big, you know, it's, there's many dimensions to it.
It's not one, there's no one answer to what it is. There's many things, right? There's many dimensions to it. And this is where, um, a good friend of mine and somebody who, you know, also is equally fascinated in this whole space and who came, comes from India and has a lot of the, um, yeah, the wisdom carries a lot of the wisdom from the, the spiritual traditions in India.
And we went to university together and we were, you know, great friends and we would spend a lot of evenings, you know, talking about all of these things, right? And we did our coaching together and eventually our path crossed and we, we realized that there was an opportunity to create something that would make the intangible tangible.
Um, and that was actually the question we had. What if, what if we could measure? It started with heart and, and the original, um, [00:37:00] big overall measure was going to be the heart quotient, the heart quotient that we would measure. And then fairly quickly it, it, it moved to human potential, the human potential.
And just mainly because we were starting to realize that language was important. Uh, but the essence, the, the, the, yeah, the essence of it was very much the same. And so a lot of these interviews, and a lot of the research was input into the creation of the model. So the human potential model, which is shaped in a house and it has, you know, four different dimensions and or states, 23 dimensions.
Uh, and it just came together very organically, very, you know, it was months and months of, of building and mapping. And then all of a sudden this framework started to, to appear. And then from the framework there was, there was a whole exercise of, of, you [00:38:00] know, what kind of questions would we need to ask to be able to get to some insight on how, where people stand, you know, on all these different measures.
So there was a questionnaire that we started to build. And, um, and that was really the beginning of it, 2013, around there.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Yeah. How would you define human potential?
Mark Vandeneijnde: You see, I've been in this for over 10 years, Jonathan, and I still don't have a,
Jonathan Hermida (2): Yeah,
Mark Vandeneijnde: a, a definition, an easy definition. Um, and I think again, because it's multidimensional, but I could, I could maybe refer to the, to the four states, right? The four states of the house. There's the being aware state, so you know, how well do we know who we are, what our purpose is, what our values are.
Um.
Jonathan Hermida (2): I.
Mark Vandeneijnde: And, you know, I think that is one very important part of expressing and unleashing and realizing our human potential. Then [00:39:00] there's being inspired, and that's the ability to access imagination ideas. And so things like curiosity play, being comfortable with the unknown are really important aspects of unleashing, uh, our, our inspirational capacities, and then being abundant.
So the, the mindset of abundance. So, you know. Holding life as already abundant. Everything is already there. Um, you know, and things like trust and acknowledgement and generosity play into that. And then finally being in service. And that's, that's how do we direct where do we direct our efforts? Right? Is it, is it in service of something greater or is it, you know, for our own benefit?
And I think the human potential gets unleashed when we're really working towards, um, something that is, that is bigger than ourselves.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Hmm.
Mark Vandeneijnde: Uh, so the service abundance, inspiration, [00:40:00] awareness, I would say are key, key elements of unleashing human potential. But human potential in itself is, is the, the innate gifts and beauty that resides in all of us.
And that is the underlying belief is that as human beings, we all have incredible potential within us.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Hmm.
Mark Vandeneijnde: And it's a matter of expressing it and realizing it. It's not that, you know, some people have more potential than others. Uh, I think at the very beginning, that was our, our starting point is that human potential is inherent in every single person.
It's God our God-given gifts.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Yeah. Well, yeah, because what, what the, what the potentials ultimately sort of being expressed as is gonna be unique for each individual. So that individual's, unique human potential is gonna be different, you know, than, 'cause sometimes we think about human potential and we think about it [00:41:00] in terms of, you know, this, this sort of end goal that somebody is maximizing themselves, anyone can reach.
Mark Vandeneijnde: Hmm.
Jonathan Hermida (2): but it, but it's, to me, I, this definition of your definition, your framework makes a lot of sense to me. Now, you, you mentioned language, and language being important, but I also recognize that the, the audience receiving the language is just as important because this definition wouldn't re rec, uh, resonate with, um, an athlete, for example, when they're talking about human potential, their human potential is different and their markers are a little different. Certain business people, certain people in other fields, right, they're, they're thinking about human potential. in a different way. Now,
Mark Vandeneijnde: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Hermida (2): about your audience? Who are you speaking to? In, in, in, in particular, when you talk about this version of human potential where we're talking about things like inspiration, abundance, service, and awareness.
Mark Vandeneijnde: Yeah, you know, there's actually quite a lot of, um, similarities between these, those [00:42:00] four states that I, I mentioned and the, the science on flow and, um, you know, I think the, the realm of, of sports, right, where people are, uh, talk about entering into their flow state and, and, and reaching their full, you know, potential in, in the sports, there are many things that are actually kind of resonant.
Um, it, you know, again, the language is a little bit different, but, but there are definitely connections there. The, the audience is, is, is very much, uh, organizational, uh, leaders. So there's, there's one, you know, little story that I always like to tell and it's, it's um, you know, somebody within the company that I worked for who was really quite a champion.
Of sort of this entrepreneurial journey that I was on. And every couple months I would go and visit her and just give her an update and she would share some feedback. And so that was kind of an ongoing thing. [00:43:00] And, and she was always very supportive. And one day I came with this house framework and I laid it out and I said, yeah, I think we've sort of gotten, you know, a really nice way of looking at what human potential is, and we're starting to measure it.
And she looked at it and she said, yeah, this all speaks to me. You know, it's, it's very clear, it feels very comprehensive and holistic and all of that. And she said, I would love to take this forward, you know, in the, in the, in the organization. But it, it's, I, it's, um, there are measures here that are missing.
You know, it, it doesn't help me understand what does this impact, you know, at the, at the level of my dashboard. Right? And so how does it help me build. Uh, engagement with my people. How does it help me unlock creativity and innovation, right? The innovation pipeline, things like this. And so we went back and, and, um, created from that, you know, it took a while of course, [00:44:00] but we created the human potential iceberg.
And, and so you have a tip of the iceberg and then you have everything underneath the water. And these four states were sitting underneath the water, right? And then there was another layer, even deeper than that, but on the top we had, um, these six organizational performance metrics. And so these are the things that get impacted by the being.
So if you make shifts at the being level, you're going to see shifts in our capacity to come up with innovation, to come up with, or for people to feel more engaged in their work. So we were starting to draw connections between being level interventions and doing level output. And so brought this into a framework, and then the next time I went and visited her, and she looked at it and she was like, yeah.
This is it. You, you got it. Now I'm sold.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Yeah.
Mark Vandeneijnde: uh, you know, a few months later we were doing a project with her team and that was all that was needed was, was for her to be able to, in her mind, uh, [00:45:00] have the puzzle kind of complete. And that was a really, uh, that was a really important moment on the journey.
And it build a lot of confidence that, you know, this is, um, it was like a full circle, right? I'd left the company, gone on this journey, nobody understood what I was doing. And then slowly things started to get more and more specific concrete. And then you go back in and they hire you. Right? And so, but now from the outside and, um, so that was, that was really, that was around 2017 when that happened.
Jonathan Hermida (2): I hope everybody's paying attention to this because the iterative process of entrepreneurship, of business ownership. So sometimes we think, yeah, I have this idea. Okay, I can start my business and off I go. the market is gonna dictate how accurate our assumptions are or inaccurate. And rather than taking them personally, taking them as data points and understanding there's something that I'm missing either in the product, in the service, in the messaging, in the messenger, in the, in the final [00:46:00] audience. You know, there's something that is missing here and can I take a scientific lens to this? Do the
Mark Vandeneijnde: Hmm.
Jonathan Hermida (2): take my time to understand, this, in my opinion, is true Empathy, putting yourself in the other person's shoes and really
Mark Vandeneijnde: Hmm.
Jonathan Hermida (2): seeking to understand what is it that they need. If I'm here to serve them, me really seek to serve them. And so this is a seven year journey to get to this point where it's like, okay, this is tangible. This is something that an organization can really take, and, and
Mark Vandeneijnde: Hmm.
Jonathan Hermida (2): for. You know? And so this is, it feels like such an important lesson. 'cause so often we miss it, especially those of us starting our journeys of entrepreneurship just now. Right.
Mark Vandeneijnde: Yeah, beautifully summarized the iterative process. It's very, very important and it's hard, you know, you work on something and you're so passionate about it, and you get, you don't get the response that you expect, or you want to then still be able to process it and to, to [00:47:00] transform it into something new,
Jonathan Hermida (2): Yeah,
Mark Vandeneijnde: you know?
Jonathan Hermida (2): is why the deeper why is essential, like having a deeper why as to why you're in
Mark Vandeneijnde: Yeah,
Jonathan Hermida (2): beyond just external measures of success. Because if you're only measuring yourself externally, then the first, no second, no third, you're like, oh, why, why am I doing this? I'm not getting the results
Mark Vandeneijnde: yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (2): I'm after.
Mark Vandeneijnde: Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Yeah. And with your measurement, with the being at full potential, uh, tool, what would you say are some of the, the, the pieces that most leaders tend to struggle with or have trouble with?
Mark Vandeneijnde: You mean in like, which dimensions tend to be more under expressed?
Jonathan Hermida (2): we go. That's
Mark Vandeneijnde: Would,
Jonathan Hermida (2): speaking accurately. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly right.
Mark Vandeneijnde: uh, yeah. Trust is one of them.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Okay.
Mark Vandeneijnde: Trust and because we define trust [00:48:00] quite holistically, you know, in that bigger trust, right? It's, uh, trusting yourself, but also trusting the unfolding, right? So, uh, that in the business context, you often see that one, um, less expressed, you know, so an area of attention, an area that you wanna draw more people, you know, want to know and understand more.
The other thing is, is harmony, which is, um. And defined as the ability to create a space for reflection and self-care. So the, basically the slowing down, right, the slowing down, the pausing, uh, taking a step back, uh, reflecting that is often, uh, less expressed. Yeah. In environments where people are constantly moving, constantly pushing.
Um, and, and, and, and that then correlates often with, you know, [00:49:00] the, the inability to get to breakthrough. So there's, there's very much this interesting connection between, uh, pausing, reflecting, uh, taking a step back and being able to see new ways forward. Right. Getting out of that. Uh, sort of very incremental approach to business development where you just tweak and make things a little bit better, but you're, you're missing the breakthrough.
You're not seeing the big picture, you're not really getting to the true innovation. Um, so yeah, and creativity also linked to that reflection piece, you know, when you can create quality time for yourself is also when you can work through tensions that might be there. And those tensions then reveal, you know, kind of new creative ways forward.
So creativity and slowing down, uh, you know, there's often, um, uh, a story there that gets told when we do the debriefing.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Yeah.
Mark Vandeneijnde: ' cause that's the [00:50:00] other interesting thing, is the de the debriefs don't happen in typical ways where, you know, we come as experts and tell them, here's what the data means and this is what you should be doing.
It's, it's very much done through a coaching. Uh, method where, you know, you, you, you share the data, but you don't interpret it. It's, it's the, it's the client who interprets it, who finds the interpretation in it, and they have to find their own story. And of course, you know, we support with that. But it's, um, it's a beautiful process of, of them making sense of what it means, and as they make sense of it, they take much greater ownership in the next steps.
Right. Because it's, it's sort of come from them. And that's what I love about the tool because it, it really, um, uh, works so well with coaching and coaching being, you know, really the, the methodology of, of change and transformation that I most, [00:51:00] yeah, that's really the only thing I believe in when it comes to change, is, is, uh,
Jonathan Hermida (2): Yeah,
Mark Vandeneijnde: you know, it has to come from the inside out so
Jonathan Hermida (2): yeah, yeah.
Mark Vandeneijnde: they work well together.
Jonathan Hermida (2): yeah, I can see that because it's a bit of the, the science of self and, uh, the only way that one can, you know, it's to understand oneself, one has to be the one that is observing and making meaning and interpretations and, of that.
Mark Vandeneijnde: Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (2): is, that is what I appreciate of this tool as well, is, is that, know, it is completely on the individual that has taken the assessment to interpret its meaning how it shows up in, in their life. It's powerful. Yeah, it's powerful. Now, another big lesson that your life represents is the, the lesson of impermanence, right? That shows up in many different ways. And where I'm alluding to here is even when things are going very well, you started this organization with your friend, the assessment [00:52:00] with your friend, eventually that, um, relationship or the, the, at least the professional version of it comes to an end point. Can you, can you speak to that moment, what was happening, what it of brought up in you and, and how you then came out the other side?
Mark Vandeneijnde: It's, uh, it's exactly that impermanence and, and it, and now with perspective, it, it really does feel like that is how life works. You know, things are born, you know, they get a life and then they die. And, and, and it, and that's really what happened. There was 10 years from the moment, 2010 when the sort of started to 2020.
Um, and there was a, you know, a huge creation. Then there was an acceleration, then there was. You know, actually going and doing a lot of the work and, and the proof of concept and all these things happened and there was, you know, an incredible [00:53:00] collaboration and synergy with, uh, with my partner at the time.
But like towards 2018, 19, you could start to feel that something was breaking down. And um, and of course, you know, the tendency is you wanna hold onto it. And for me, you know, I really wanted to hold on and, and we have a good thing here. So, you know, there, there was a lot of trying to fix, trying to maybe even put aside signs, you know, that we're showing up and then it got to a bit of a breaking point, and then it's just like, it's one of the most painful things to, uh, to let go.
Right. And to accept that. Yeah. The, the, the, that journey together had come to an end and that a lot of things that were sort of built around that were also coming to an end. So a lot of the community that we had that had sort of formed around, [00:54:00] around this, uh, a lot, you know, many people just went off on their, doing their own thing again.
And, and what happened was I ended up finding myself alone again, you know, 10 years later. Um, and it was very painful and confusing and I didn't know if I wanted to take this forward, right? Because my partner had said he does, he didn't wanna do this work anymore, right? So he had other things. And, and so it was really up to me to figure out do I still have it in me to commit another 10 years to this work and to reinvent.
And at the time I didn't actually think about reinvention, but eventually it came to me that if I was going to do it, there would have to be quite a big reinvention in how I think about myself, but also how I think about the next phase of this work. And at some point that that happened, like I started to get a vision of where I could go.
I started to [00:55:00] get new insights and the energy started to come back, uh, slowly at first, and then it accelerated, you know? And then now it's, uh, obviously five years in and so much has happened. But it took a, it took a good again, year, two years for the, uh, transition out.
Jonathan Hermida (2): What
Mark Vandeneijnde: Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (2): what, uh, what helped you navigate that period?
Mark Vandeneijnde: A lot of, uh, time on my own. Uh, to be honest, Jonathan and I had to become comfort. I had to, I had to reconnect with myself. So part of what was going, what had kind of gone wrong is I'd, uh, I'd lost a bit touch with, with my own power in that relationship. It, it had kind of gotten a little bit messy and, [00:56:00] and, and I, I just had to refind myself, re-anchor myself, and there was no one who could do that for me.
So it was actually quite a, and it was COVID of course, right? So we were all offline and there was, you know, very little face-to-face contact. Um, I also wrote actually, and that's when I, I ended up writing, um, the being entrepreneur, which was my sort of a bit, you know, my stepping back. This was a big part of it actually, the writing.
Uh, 'cause I wanted to capture the story of the past 10 years and I knew it was an entrepreneurial journey and I knew it was not a typical entrepreneurial journey. And so I ended up calling it the being entrepreneur. So being entrepreneurship. And it was, it was, it was, uh, it was basically a very personal story, the one that I've just shared with you.
Right. But going into more detail, [00:57:00] and it was what allowed me to close that chapter actually. It was the writing that allowed me to close the chapter. And it took a good year, you know, probably a bit more than a year. And, you know, you know, of course there's people who are, who are reading it and people who really have enjoyed it.
But that wasn't, that wasn't the purpose. It was not to get this out into the world. It was,
Jonathan Hermida (2): Yeah.
Mark Vandeneijnde: it was really a kind of a healing journey. I, I, I had to go through. And one thing I know about my process is that writing helps me. Um. Work through things and process things. So it was very healing to actually write that.
Jonathan Hermida (2): It's interesting that at at two of the biggest pivot points in your life, you turn to creativity and creative
Mark Vandeneijnde: Hmm.
Jonathan Hermida (2): So the first time with the documentary and the second time
Mark Vandeneijnde: Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Hermida (2): that these things were
Mark Vandeneijnde: Yeah,
Jonathan Hermida (2): from these
Mark Vandeneijnde: that's, that's, that's really good observation. Yeah, that's true. That,
Jonathan Hermida (2): [00:58:00] In retrospect, what lessons have you gained that you can apply moving forward around partnership, business partnership, and how to approach that and how to nurture that, how to engage with that?
Mark Vandeneijnde: hmm.
I love partnerships, you know, and that was one of the sad things. I love working with people. I love, I love collaborating. I, I'm always the first to say, let's co-create, let's do, you know, uh, so I missed it. I, I really did miss it. And I think the lesson is that it's, you know, it's great to co-create, but I, I really had to anchor myself much more.
And every time I tried, like there were of course moments where I would try to sort of make that, I was being shown that, no, it's not the right time yet. It's not [00:59:00] the right time. You're not ready yet. You're not ready yet. So I, I really had to go through. Uh, quite some time where I, I just had to refocus on myself and my own vision.
You know, there was a lot about getting clarity on 2030, which was sort of that 10 year horizon again. And, um, and being able to articulate, being able to really root it in, in a new vision. Um, and then the cr recreating the platform, the whole assessment platform got reinvented significantly in that time.
And, and that was a lot of sort of behind the scenes work, but it was also the, the building of the roots. And what was amazing is that, you know, at, at some point when those roots were there, I guess then people like Amrita started to show up, right? And, and it just happened very effortlessly. There was no, like me needing to make something happen.
It just, it just happened. And I guess that's when, yeah, I knew that I was ready, right? I was [01:00:00] ready to go and, and. Work and collaborate and co-create again.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Hmm.
Mark Vandeneijnde: Um, but it took time.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Yeah.
Mark Vandeneijnde: But it, and, and it was difficult because I get so much joy out of it. I I really, I love that.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Yeah. What is your relationship between, uh, vision and So what I mean by that is having a vision. You mentioned the 10 year, you know, it's a 2030 and working towards it. Like, okay, this is my goal, this is what I'm, what I'm after. Versus verses sensing into and, and, and noticing what is naturally emerging and trusting in that unfolding. What is your relationship between these two that aren't necessarily in conflict, but they can seem at times like they are.
Mark Vandeneijnde: Yeah.[01:01:00]
I think at the essence level, uh, the vision and the unfolding are very similar. I think in the form level there's often a disconnect, and if we pay attention to the form, then if we pay too much attention to the form, then it can feel like, oh, we're off track, and what's emerging is not aligned with my vision and this and that.
So I think I've gotten better at anchoring a vision more into the, into the essence. And, and I'll give you an example. Like one of the big shifts that happened within me was realizing that human potential development is a human right, a basic human right. That we all, we all have been given a gift and we all have the, the right and the, we should all have the ability to express that gift, but we don't all have, you know, the resources and the ability to hire a coach and to, you know, go [01:02:00] to trainings and workshops.
So I started to, to reframe this whole human potential work and the assessment through that lens, and started to think like, you know, rather than just think about this as an assessment where somebody fills a questionnaire and then they get a report sent to them, and then they need to work with a coach to figure out what the report means.
How about create a platform where the assessment is just one part of it, but it's a, it's a portal where there's tremendous amount of resources that can be accessed and where, you know, they, people can help themselves to learn more about who they are. And they can obviously, you know, still reach out to people.
Um, but there, you know, videos, inspirational videos, there are, you know, exercises, challenges, all of these things can be put into a portal where the assessment is, is one aspect of it. So that is, I would say, [01:03:00] you know, how the, the vision and the actual work started to connect for me. Um, you know, this vision of a world where everyone is living their full potential, right?
And we all should have access to it. And then even moving it to making this a, a free platform, right? There's no paywall. We didn't have that before, right? It was like, you wanna take the assessment? Okay, you know, it costs this much. But no, this is a different model where it's, it's open, it's free, it's accessible to anyone who wants to go on that path.
And, uh, and, and that's a significant shift in how. To think about the work and my role in this. And, um, so from a vision point of view, it's, it's, it's quite significant different, you know, it's different,
Jonathan Hermida (2): Yeah.
Mark Vandeneijnde: but it influences a lot of things, right? It's like, how do you democratize access to human potential development?
Well, you know, technology can be a great enabler of [01:04:00] that. Um,
so I don't know if that answers your question, but it's, yeah, I think I'm, I'm very connected to that essence of democratizing access and it being a human right, and, you know, a world where everyone can express their full potential.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Hmm.
Mark Vandeneijnde: What is my role in that? How can I, how can I build a bit in that space?
Jonathan Hermida (2): Certainly everybody that wants to, right? Because there's also a, a large swath of the population that are not even thinking about human potential. In fact, how do you, how do you, you know, going to Maslow's hierarchy of needs, just from that very standpoint, there's people that for whom survival is primary.
So potential is not even anywhere near a thought. How do you, how do you make sense of that part? You know? 'cause we, there is a world, right? There's a utopian vision for what AI can bring to this world
Mark Vandeneijnde: [01:05:00] Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Hermida (2): resources are in abundance and, and folks are, every need that somebody has is being met. perhaps there will be more and more people that can focus on things like potential, but then just to add more into the mix. A world in which AI has taken over so many of the expressions of that potential potential, um, that interferes with that. And so now we're, we're entering into an, an interesting world. So I don't, I don't have a complete thought here, just kind of putting together kind of what's emerging societally here,
Mark Vandeneijnde: Yeah,
Jonathan Hermida (2): is coming to a place where it can democratize something like potential, but at the same time, out the outlets, the where somebody can express that potential, you know, perhaps might be hindered as a result of it as well.
Mark Vandeneijnde: yeah, a few things here. I mean, the readiness is for sure, that always will be, you know, key. So the, the, you know, this is, this, this is never about pushing anything on anyone. [01:06:00] Um, but it, it's, it's an invitation to anyone who wants to explore, who's ready to explore and removing, you know, as many barriers as possible for them to be able to do that.
I, I do believe, yes, the hierarchy needs is real and people who are, you know, very much in the, in the, um, survival mode are not gonna pay a lot of attention to, um, you know, realizing their, their gifts. Um, but I do think that, you know, in many parts of the world there, there's a, um, well, you know, um, yeah, standards of living are rising, you know, even though sometimes it, it doesn't feel like that.
But that's one thing. Um, and the other thing I think is that there's a, there's a generational shift. I see a lot of younger people, uh, looking at this work [01:07:00] and, and, and really resonating with it. It's like they get it right away. The en energetically, they feel it and they do yearn for self-realization instead of, um.
You know, climbing the corporate ladder, right? That, that's more important to them, right? To be able to find work that is meaningful, impactful, where they can be themselves. So I, I think generationally we're seeing, uh, a shift there. Um, and, you know, but yeah, there's, there's gonna be a, there's definitely, this is not for everyone.
So the readiness is important when it comes to ai. I actually think that this is the, the, the human dimension is the thing that is actually going to separate us and make, and keep us unique, uh, on ai. Because, you know, at least for the foreseeable future, um, AI is gonna have a hard time, you know, being [01:08:00] able to truly feel compassion, for example, or to truly.
You know, embody, you know, some of these qualities that, um, are inherent to us as human beings. And if we're going to keep trying to compete at the rational mental level, uh, intellect level, we're going to be obsolete very, very quick. We already are pretty much obsolete. So the way that we stay relevant in a world of accelerating AI is actually to double down on our humanness, on, on becoming more human right, even more human.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Yeah.
Mark Vandeneijnde: Um, so that's what I believe, you know, that's, that's sort of what also inspires me to keep moving this forward. And, and that there's actually, the time is really now, you know, to um, yeah, to, to really stand for it, I guess.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Yeah.
Mark Vandeneijnde: [01:09:00] Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (2): And, and, and in so many ways you, this tool, this assessment that you created, is that assessment of those qualities that are gonna be needed in the 22nd
Mark Vandeneijnde: Hmm.
Jonathan Hermida (2): I would argue
Mark Vandeneijnde: Yeah,
Jonathan Hermida (2): very human qualities that do indicate what human potential ultimately is gonna mean for more and more
Mark Vandeneijnde: yeah,
Jonathan Hermida (2): over time.
Mark Vandeneijnde: yeah. I, I, I, I do think so. Yeah. Yeah.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Yeah.
Mark Vandeneijnde: And if AI can, can support us in expressing more of our human potential, that's great. Right. I'm, I'm looking at, you know, virtual AI coach that would be on the platform, right? That could meet people there and say, you know, and support them. But it would be trained according to the, you know, the, the best practices of debriefing and coaching.
And so it would be really, you know, very tuned into You're not the expert. I know, I know that, you know. We use, utilize you as the all knowing, [01:10:00] you know, you go to chat GBT and, and you ask a question, you get an answer. But no, you're designed to actually not know, right? You're designed to ask questions to mirror back to here, to observe and, and to, you know, to be the space holder.
And, you know, from the very first kind of prototyping that we're starting to do, we're starting to see that that actually is possible and it can, can designed in that way. And, and I think then technology can become a huge enabler to further unleash what's already within us as human beings.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Yeah, no question.
Mark Vandeneijnde: So this is also part of, you know, where I, I feel this, this can go right, but it has to be very carefully thought through and designed and.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a collective emergence that is happening that we're all stepping into that can only be discovered by taking steps forward. You know, each of us, these max maximized potentialities out in [01:11:00] the world that are feeling called to be expressions of this work, are stepping into that new vision for the world. this is one of them. You know, the work that we do at the center is another version of that, of the same, and, and so we have these different, uh, lighthouses that are now, um, serving this emergence. I think that collectively need, so it's, it's really beautiful to hear the work that you're doing and also your life.
The past 15 years has been an, an example of that from. Sensing something. Something needs to change. Something needs to shift. I don't know what it is, but I know
Mark Vandeneijnde: Hmm.
Jonathan Hermida (2): to change. I sense an inkling of it, but let me just take the leap to today. Look at in 15 years how that emergence and vision had come together into something concrete and tangible. Where 15 years ago you couldn't have imagined a sense, you know,
Mark Vandeneijnde: No,
Jonathan Hermida (2): here today.
Mark Vandeneijnde: no, no.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Yeah. As [01:12:00] we close up this conversation, um, for those listeners that are here, what advice, what, uh, message might you give them, um, on, on their own transformational journeys as they're navigating it processing it and perhaps even seeking to be of service to the world?
Mark Vandeneijnde: Hmm.
Yeah. Two things stand out in, in our conversation that actually came up. One is the, the anchor. So building that strong inner anchor of knowing who you are and where, you know, why are you here? Right? That, for me was a big one. Why am I here? And embracing those gifts. Like for me, it was the sensitivity, right?
The thing that I was always told that needed to change and that actually embracing it as, as a real gift. Um, I think that that anchor and then, uh, the other thing was, um, [01:13:00] um,
the, um, the iteration, the ability to iterate and to, uh, to not take things personally. Because when we're creating something new that, especially something that comes from the inside, which I think a lot of the listeners will probably re relate to, you know, you wanna create from the inside out. You're bringing something new into the world that is not going to be understood right away, or not as well understood as you would like it to be.
And you're gonna get feedback that will feel like maybe a bit of an attack. Or, uh, you know, that it's, it's pers you know, personal and I think that's very natural and, and it's good to go through that, to feel that, but to not get stuck in that. So there is, there is a, a way of, of working with that energy and [01:14:00] transforming it and making it into a creative energy.
And I think that, that over and over again, I've seen that when there, there is tension, when there's sort of stuckness, um, that, that is also the beginning of something new if I'm willing to work with it, if I'm willing to, um, embrace it and allow it to do what it needs to do. Uh, so I, I, yeah, I think those would be the two things that are coming up.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Wonderful, wonderful. Mark. Thank.
Mark Vandeneijnde: And, and, you know, you very much helped me see that, uh, Jonathan, you know, as I think what I love about these conversations is that there, there are these mirrors back, you know, and it makes me become more aware of the journey and, and see it through d new light again, every, every time. Um, so I just really want to thank you for the, the beautiful space holding and the [01:15:00] beautiful presence, the depth of listening.
All of that was just remarkable.
Jonathan Hermida (2): Wonderful. Mark, thank you so much. You know, for sharing so much of yourself. I know that this story is gonna resonate with so many people. It's gonna help so many people to understand, understand what's needed, what, what it takes, and that they already have what need in order to move ahead. Sure. It requires a little bit of courage and trust, but that is what the journey requires of us.
Certainly. And your life is an embodiment of that courage and trust. And, uh, thank you. Thank you again for being here with me.
Mark Vandeneijnde: Thank you so much for being with us today. To learn more about today's guest visit our podcast landing page at www.podcast.centerfortransformationalcoaching.com. You'll find links to their website, social media, and anything else they might wanna share there. And if you're curious to explore more about our work, our trainings, or the deep coaching approach.
You'll find everything at www.centerfortransformationalcoaching.com. A new episode of this podcast releases every two [01:16:00] weeks, so please subscribe wherever you listen to. Stay up to date. Until next time, stay present, embrace love, and continue sensing into what life is calling you toward. See you soon. Doing.