Leon VanderPol is an internationally recognized leader, spirit-based teacher, and founder of the Center for Transformational Coaching. Leon’s work has profoundly shaped the field of transformational coaching, helping countless individuals awaken to their deepest potential. In our conversation, we explore the pivotal moments that led him to his own transformation, the creation of Deep Coaching, and the journey of trusting life’s unfolding. From navigating the “muck” of inner growth to understanding the power of true healing, Leon shares insights on the spiritual path, the evolution of purpose, and what it means to partner with life. If you’ve ever felt called to something greater but struggled with trust, patience, or uncertainty, this episode offers the wisdom and depth you need.
Leon VanderPol is an internationally recognized leader, spirit-based teacher, and founder of the Center for Transformational Coaching. Leon’s work has profoundly shaped the field of transformational coaching, helping countless individuals awaken to their deepest potential. In our conversation, we explore the pivotal moments that led him to his own transformation, the creation of Deep Coaching, and the journey of trusting life’s unfolding. From navigating the “muck” of inner growth to understanding the power of true healing, Leon shares insights on the spiritual path, the evolution of purpose, and what it means to partner with life. If you’ve ever felt called to something greater but struggled with trust, patience, or uncertainty, this episode offers the wisdom and depth you need.
⏰ Time Stamps
00:52 Meet Leon VanderPol: A Transformational Leader
01:55 Leon’s Early Spiritual Journey
03:46 The Impact of Family on Spiritual Growth
07:34 Corporate Life vs. Spirituality
09:39 The Move to Asia: A New Beginning
12:05 Discovering A Course in Miracles
14:27 The Struggle with Life Purpose
22:49 The Black Box Metaphor
32:40 Falling in Love with Coaching
36:48 Integrating Spirit into Coaching
38:57 Exploring Healing in Coaching
44:55 Introducing Light Body Healing
47:42 Founding the Center for Transformational Coaching
50:53 Developing Deep Coaching Practices
01:00:17 Trusting Organic Growth
01:04:40 The Secret and the Law of Attraction
01:12:37 Deep Coaching: Beyond Traditional Methods
01:18:58 The Future of Transformational Coaching
01:22:42 Invitation to Slow Down and Reflect
🔗 Links
The Deep Coach Podcast
Episode 1: Leon VanderPol THE Pioneer of Transformational Coaching: Discover Coaching's True Potential
---
The Beginning of a Transformational Journey
Leon: [00:00:00] it was really foretelling of the next, full decade of my life, which was, just time of deep diving myself and into these big existential questions like, is my purpose in the world? is it that I'm here to do? How do I want to be in this world? What does it look like to live and work and play in the flow of spirit, to be spiritually advanced, evolved, awakened, like a lot of these really big questions came up.
Jonathan: Hi, and welcome to the Deep Coach, the podcast where we explore the transformational journeys that shape us and that propel us to change the world. I'm your host, Jonathan Hermida, and in each episode we sit down with those who have journeyed into the depths of spiritual transformation and who are now reshaping the world through their presence and their work.
Today I am honored to welcome a very special guest. Someone many of you know very well, and someone whose work has [00:01:00] profoundly influenced and shaped the world of transformational coaching. Leon VanderPol is an internationally recognized leader, spirit based teacher and author in the field of transformational coaching as the founder and CEO of the Center for Transformational Coaching.
He has guided countless, I would say thousands. Of individuals in awakening to their deepest potential. His bestselling book, A Shift in Being, has been translated into multiple languages, expanding his teachings to a global audience. I have the honor and the privilege of calling this man a friend and a mentor.
In today's conversation. We're gonna dive deep into his personal journey. The before, during, and after of his own transformation, we're gonna explore the pivotal moments that led him to his work, the founding of the Center for Transformational Coaching, and how he developed the deep coaching practices that are changing the way people approach personal and spiritual growth.
So without further ado, let's dive right in.
A Life-Changing Game in Phuket
Jonathan: Where do you feel your transformational journey really began?
Leon: So [00:02:00] I'll tell you a story. It starts with a day that I can remember very vividly. It was when I was living in Phuket, so I spent a couple of years living in Thailand, and at the end of my stay there, I was playing a game with some friends called Transformational Game. Go figure. You can look that one up online and it's a game you can buy.
It's actually a really interesting fairly revealing. And part of that game is that at the end you pull a card that gives you a word and that word signifies next stage of your life, however long that's going to be. And I pulled the word and the word was, as you might guess, transformation. And I remember thinking at the time, well, that's kind of cool. The reality is today, I can look back and say, I didn't have a clue really what real transformation meant. I understood it [00:03:00] intellectually and I could use the word in conversation, but to understand it on a personal level, I really hadn't a clue.
But it was really foretelling of the next, I would say, full decade of my life, which was, you know, from, again, in hindsight, just time of deep diving myself and into these big existential questions like, is my purpose in the world? is it that I'm here to do? How do I want to be in this world? What does it look like to, to live and, and, and work and play kind of in the flow of spirit, to be spiritually advanced, evolved, awakened, like a lot of these really big questions came up.in that previous decade.
Spiritual Upbringing and Early Influences
Leon: Now, just to give you a bit of context, I've always had, even from a fairly, fairly young age, I'd say, and even in my late teens, I was drawn to spiritual [00:04:00] literature, beginning to explore the depth of my existence. One of the first books that I read that had a real impact on me was The Way of the Peaceful Warrior, Dan Millman's book. early on. And I love that book because it was the journey of a young man and a kind of mentor and guide that was ushering him into a more evolved version of himself. And from there it led to other books that drew me in for their spiritual nature, but also because they tended to paint a very large vivid picture of life at a macro level.
Like I've always been curious about the greater cosmic existence of life. That we are a part of. So not just how do I become a better person, just kind of that, that smaller world of personal growth, I was always fascinated by the bigger world world of, let's say, cosmic citizenship and what it looks like to be an evolved human being within a much greater understanding of [00:05:00] universal life. So I was kind of drawn to these kinds of books into exploring them for a very long time. one of the things that I always grateful for with my, with my family upbringing was that. mother, at one point, went on her own awakening journey of transformation. We were raised in a Christian household up until I was about 14.
And at that point, I remember that night vividly when my mom just looked at all of us and said, we're not going back to church. And she went off on her own spiritual journey. And my father, who I would always say has found his relationship with God in the spirit, in nature. Uh, he just looked at that and said, well, great.
Then I just have more time to go birdwatching on Sunday mornings, kind of thing, and we never went back to church and I'll watch my mother go on her own kind of spiritual journey, seeking out those communities, those texts that inspired her to evolve herself and again, to kind of expand her understanding of her role in life and her [00:06:00] place in the cosmos. So I was raised in a family that gave permission, even implicit permission for, for us to follow our own You know, inner guidance and our own drummer and to say no to the conventional, even if all your friends and all your families are looking at you thinking like, why would you, why would you leave the church?
Why would you go off on your own journey? What is this new age stuff? You know, this is back in the, in the eighties. What is this new age stuff that you're pursuing? Why are you going to California? Like what's there? A lot of the stalwarts of the church and our community really questioned my family. So to witness my parents courageously take a step into something new was permission giving for me. from a very young age, I've always just followed my own inner drummer. decided to leave Canada ultimately when I was 24 and I moved to the United States for a few years and I worked as a management consultant in corporate life until I'd had my fill of that. And then I moved on to Asia. And [00:07:00] I said, that kind of landed me at that point in Phuket with this piece of paper that said, this is the beginning of your transformational journey. And although you may not know what it is going to entail, We will show you. And it did.
Jonathan: So that moment catalyzed or was a catalyst for what was to come.
Corporate Life vs. Spiritual Yearning
Jonathan: How, what would you say your, your relationship to spirituality and practices and, you know, you mentioned your, you were into certain books and material, but as a consultant working in, you know, with corporations, what, what was your relationship to spirituality then?
Leon: that was the hardest part. I had, no idea, like I'm from the West coast of Canada and a very liberal, very environmentally conscious, uh, in general, like very tree hugging back to earth culture. It was how I grew up. to land in Cincinnati, Ohio, which is a much more conservative. In general, and then to land in to [00:08:00] say corporate life, which is very conservative in many ways was a massive shock for me. there was no, there was no shade of. life in that world. There was no shade of our connection with the earth and nature. I mean, much of my upbringing was spent outdoors.
Even my work life was often spent outdoors. So that connection with nature is just built into the way that we're raised on the West coast. So it was a very big cultural shift. And I remember thinking at one point, you know, I'm selling my soul here for, You know, this experience for the dollar for being a part of this. And I was very grateful for the experience because undoubtedly, though it was like corporate bootcamp, I learned a tremendous amount about corporate life, about business, about adapting to new cultures about myself. But I remember there being this vacuum of spiritual. Discussion within even the friendships that I was cultivating there.
It was just [00:09:00] business and getting on a kind of work hard, play hard kind of mentality. And I even remember getting upset with a girlfriend of mine at the time saying, you know, Hey, don't you have any interest in personal development? You know, it was, it was irritating to me that the people that I was around would show no indication that they were interested in growing in any other way except professionally. You know, and it was just, if I do grow, it's just so that I can do this job that I do better so I can advance up the corporate ladder that I'm a part of. so there was that sense of selling the soul because it was just felt like this grand, this grand vacuum. And I think ultimately, that's why I decided to follow my heart and my heart was, let's go to Asia.
Now, I'd done some backpacking in Southeast Asia prior to my movement to the United States and I had fallen in love with Southeast Asia. There was just something about the people, the culture, the food, the sense of freedom, um, the very relaxed culture. I wanted to go back and always wanted to go back.
And at the time it sounded felt right. Okay. So I [00:10:00] just bought that one way ticket. You know, that's my life. My life is a series of one way tickets, really just buy the ticket, go there and then see what happens. And that's all I did. I didn't know what I was going to do. I didn't know how I was going to survive.
I didn't have anything really lined up of significance. I just knew I wanted to be in Asia, so I bought that one way ticket to Bangkok, and off we went. And life unfolds, it just really does. But at the time, I was willing to take that risk because it felt so very right, despite, again, all the people around me saying, quitting your job for what? is a high paying corporate gig. They're willing to pay for your MBA. They're willing to do all of this for you when you come. You get your student loans paid for. You've got a career trajectory. could be a partner in seven or eight years. Like, what on earth would motivate you to give this up? And I, I didn't really have an answer except I just don't want to be here. And I really want to be there and I'm going to go there. [00:11:00]
The Search for Purpose and Inner Transformation
Leon: And I did go there and I don't know if, you know, Southeast Asia for me has always felt like a bit like living spirituality. I mean, there are temples everywhere. It wasn't my spirituality, but it's just embedded in the energy of the land. And I guess there was a part of me that felt that, just that relaxation around these things that I felt normal, which is to have these conversations about transformation and living and spirituality and the philosophy of these different religions.
Like I love that space. it felt very normal to be there to have those conversations. It was like a different world. So I went, okay. Yeah.
Jonathan: It's fascinating. I'm, I'm curious about that. So you got the, you, you pick the card.
Leon: Yeah. Yeah.
Jonathan: At what point did you feel and realize like, Oh boy, I'm really, I'm really on this journey. This journey has taken hold of me.
Leon: I don't know if I ever realized it until again, in [00:12:00] hindsight, it was, it was much more that things just began to happen for me. Now, one of the big pieces that happened for me was that I came across the text of Course in Miracles. was a massive, a massive player in my own transformation. I had gone back from living in Thailand at the time. I went back. to Canada and I often would sit at my mom's bookshelf. She'd always stacked it with all new books in the two or three years that I'd been away often again around this world of spirituality and self help. So I was sitting at that and kind of piling up the books I was planning to take with me. then this course of miracle book kind of landed. And I remember I made a pile of the one books and then it's just this one other book called A Course in Miracles over here. And I was just looking between the two of them and I took that book. okay, that's the book I need. That's the only book I need.
And again, I don't know why that is. But the Course in Miracles has a section at the back called a [00:13:00] workbook, and it's a 365 days immersion the the living way of the, what the Course is pointing to, which is ultimately love, consciousness. Let's call it that love consciousness to understand what that means and the work it takes to reshape the mind, the human mind, which has been conditioned in so many ways all of these aspects of ourself that we carry in that block us from that understanding.
The course is there to kind of strip that away, right? So I began to dive into that and that's when I noticed things got really quite interesting at the same time as I'm beginning to kind of strip away. understand the depth of myself and to notice the barriers of my mind, I've got this incredible yearning to be of purpose in this world. Just to be out there of service. When I was 27, I bought a book, I think it's called The Path, and it was this idea that with this kind of formula, you could write your life purpose. [00:14:00] Now, I've long lost that. I kind of wish I'd kept it. But I did that. I read the book and I did it and I, and I came up with a very beautiful life purpose.
So already around 27, 28 years old, I had this life purpose. It may not be it, but it's, it's in the ballpark. And so this yearning to be of that was so great. And at the same time, there's this real deep evolution of myself that's occurring. And that's the hard part. was the really tricky part. That's when, to answer your question, things got really Because my desire to be of something in this world the impatience I had with life to get on with it, to bring me that thing which I'm here to do, to show it to me, it just wouldn't yet come. was always doing work I enjoyed doing. I've always long, uh, since early 2000s worked in the field of learning, adult learning, personal growth, development, corporate, non corporate, all of those spheres. I've always been doing work that I love, but What I was [00:15:00] here to do was the most elusive thing in the world. And that the hardest part, I think. The impatience that I had. Because there were times when I remember being deeply depressed. Like lying on the couch for days just depressed. Why isn't this thing that I want to have happen, happening? I was trying all kinds of adventures. I would say yes to almost anything that looked like it could take me to something called my life purpose and to live that fully expressed. had all kinds of projects going on and these are interesting things, Jonathan. These are, there's nothing here that I wouldn't want to do. These are all things that I thought, yes, that might be the vehicle that takes me there and many of them went nowhere. It's like hitting a wall. And so I would sit there shaking my fist at the universe and upset and anger and frustration and impatience hating myself at times, you know, it's obviously something wrong with me. must not be doing enough. I must not be doing it right. I must not be worthy. [00:16:00] all of that stuff just comes up, which I think is actually what the whole transformational journey wants us to look at. It wants us to look at all those issues of self worth. that are so deep within us, the sense that I'm not good enough or I'm not lovable or I'm not safe. And so this, this kind of clashing of the yearning with the work brought all of that to the surface. And that really was when I, I guess, you know, in hindsight, that was, that was the muck, muck of the journey.
Jonathan: The muck of the journey. How long would you say you were in the muck of the journey?
Leon: Oh, a good five, six years.
Jonathan: Five, six years.
Leon: five, six years, at least. Maybe that's being conservative in my, in my estimate. But yeah, it was, it was in the muck for quite a while. And again, lots of good things are happening, Jonathan. This is not that life is awful. During this time, I had work that I love doing. I got married. I had [00:17:00] beautiful children born, you know, lots of good things are happening in this. But this is this inner yearning piece, this, deep, deep desire to be about my work in this world. And what is that work? And how do I connect with it? How do I bring it to life? I don't even know what it is, let alone, you know, making it happen. And yet that yearning is there. So that was the hardest part. Like in the midst of all this goodness, there's this energy of, which diminishes my appreciation of the goodness, right? Because when you have this, this angst, it or depression or anger or whatever it is, it diminishes the quality our capacity to appreciate the goodness.
And it diminishes, it's like putting blinders on, right? We can't see anymore the totality what is going on in for us. Like I didn't realize that the journey, because again, nobody taught me what the transformational journey [00:18:00] really looks like. Really looks like nobody taught this stuff. Most spiritual texts speak about this utopic future. Like when you're present, it's all just there and life flows like, yeah, but how do you get there? Kind of thing. What's it involve? Not for those like Eckhart Tolle, who what? one night jumped from like suicidal awareness to enlightenment and then stayed there forever. You know, for most humanity, we're not making these quantum leaps in consciousness.
We're going through a really, really involved rough period called transformation. No one taught me that. So I knew nothing about how to be with it or how to normalize it or how to even accept it. It was just angst diminishing the quality of my appreciation of the beauty and goodness that was happening and of course blinding me to the fact that it all was happening. I just didn't know it.
Jonathan: So then what was your experience of being with your then girlfriend, eventually wife, and then having kids while [00:19:00] simultaneously feeling this hole of sorts or this something missing still?
Leon: Yeah, well, that's just it. I think there was this diminished quality of life experience happening. If I was able to take a breath and say this is all so normal. Like this is the journey. Just accept this. Accept the shadow and the light and the dance of the two. that you're going to have to go into yourself and look at parts of yourself that maybe you don't want to look at.
That you're going to have to do deep forgiveness work. And not just once, but repeatedly. That you're going to have to heal. If there was anybody just to tell me that that was okay and to really hold that space for me to go through that, think that would have been a much more easeful time in my life. Now, again, I don't want to diminish the goodness of what was happening because there was so much, there was still so much laughter and fun and wonderful activities happening and watching the children [00:20:00] grow to beautiful human beings. I do remember going to say a social gathering where I would just want to myself from the party and go sit on the couch and wait for like one person to come or we could have some kind of a deep meaningful conversation because I just didn't want to socialize. So there was a distancing too that was happening. I started to judge other people. Again, just the shadowy stuff coming up. My spiritual ego. Ah, you're on this path. Aha. Therefore you are better than those who are not on this path. Look at them. Those peasants kind of thing. The ego wants to tell you that, you're spiritually more evolved because you're having these thoughts and having these conversations and reading these books and just look at me go. Right? So that's all happening as well. And then there's a distancing going on from people that were close to me, friends that I'd had for years. I'm now thinking, I don't know if I want to hang out with these people anymore. And again, this is normal. [00:21:00] You know, to hear this from so many now who've been on the path, that sense of, those people that I've called friends for a lifetime, I'm not really feeling that I want to spend time with them. And I'm worried and fearful that things are going to fall apart. Maybe my marriage will fall apart. Maybe my relationships will fall apart. So maybe I shouldn't distance. Maybe I should state, you know, there's that again, there's that tension between what is really desired what is happening. And again, nobody there to normalize it. So in that there's much more angst. while on the surface, there is goodness happening and I'm appreciating that goodness. I shouldn't say it's just surface level. was, there was real goodness happening. I could see that, there was still that ball of naughty angst tension and patience constantly at play during those years.
Jonathan: What was the final release valve? If there was one.
Leon: Yeah, it came when [00:22:00] I guess I'd realized that I had reached a certain point of readiness for the work. So what I say now is, and this is again, is in hindsight that you have to become the person for whom your high dreams are possible. It's a becoming process into who you are being, not just what you're doing. And so, so much of it was me thinking I have to do something to get there. So running around chasing all these projects and yes, I'm still working on the being, but my mind is occupied often with the, well, that vehicle will get me there. I have to become the person whom this is possible. And there was one day when that realization came and landed.
And maybe I can share this story. I've shared it before because it's kind of an interesting, uh, analogy too, for the journey. I call it the black box. So what would happen was for a number of years, when I would go into a meditation state, and I would begin to kind of visualize myself in my life, I would find myself inside a black box. [00:23:00] and I'm in this black box just running around trying to find the door, but it's a black box. There is no door. There's no door, but I am just going to find that it's got to be here somewhere. I'll look up, I'll look down, I'll look everywhere. There's got to be a door and this image of just me running around trying to find this door. This is what my life felt like. If I could just find the door, man, it's got to be here somewhere. And this is what I was chasing. So in the sense of the projects or even the books I would pick up or the conversations I'd have in the back of my mind deeply was always the thought, maybe this is the thing that will launch me into that that I'm calling living my life fully expressed in my purpose, exhausting work.
But this is, I mean, I'm in a black box. What else am I supposed to do? So one day what happened was I got up and went into my meditation, closed my eyes and the black box appeared. Now it didn't appear every time, [00:24:00] but it came up. And this time, however, I was sitting on the outside of the box. I was sitting on a step just outside this black box. And I looked over my shoulder and sure enough, the black box was behind me, immutable right there. But in front of me was just this horizon. endless horizon of possibility, just infinite horizon of possibility. And I could feel it. It was possibility was the word, right? And I remember thinking, Oh my goodness, something has changed.
Something in me has changed. I must have found the door. So the first thing I started doing in my meditation was starting to find the door, looking on the outside this time, because the door must be here because there's only explanation for me being outside this black box. Is that I found the door. Well, guess what? No door. So I sat down again looking at this infinite horizon of possibility. And in that moment I knew something had changed forever. [00:25:00] And I also knew that there never was a door. And that's the point. will come to me and say, Leon, I want to get to that place. What's the secret recipe? There must be a door.
They don't use that word, but there must be a secret recipe to this. The thing need to do or find. And I keep saying, there is no secret recipe. just do the work on the inner plane, do the work you're called to on the external plane, live the life as fully as you can comprehend it to be in any moment. one day. With no time frame, you will know has shifted forever. And generally, I find that to be true. Generally, I find that to be true. so what happens is, of course, people like myself even didn't know that, kept looking for the door. We keep seeking and seeking and seeking and seeking and seeking and seeking. It's like, no, [00:26:00] do the work. Do the work. Do the work. Until one day, that horizon of possibility will, will rest in front of you in your eyes and you'll know that is it. You were there inexplicable yet totally known.
Jonathan: How would you define the door that most people are looking for?
Leon: Yeah, it's metaphorical, isn't it? And I suspect that for each person, that door is in, imagined or visualized differently. I do feel for a lot of people, the door tends to be related to a, a work, like something that you might call a vocation. Or a doing in the world. Like, if I just find that thing. for other people, too, it's just getting closer and closer to that sense of what they want to experience for themselves. So, for example, let's say my life as a youngster has been quite tumultuous. Let's say there has been, let's say, abuse or [00:27:00] neglect in my childhood. as I grow up, I just want to get away from that. And I'm kind of called a find myself, but I'm very lost within myself. So I go to India and I join a meditation retreat. then I find that the energy there is quite wonderful. And I decide, well, maybe I should just stay here a little longer. And I begin to study whether it's Hinduism or Buddhism. I begin to study. Perhaps I start to wear some of the clothes of the local people. I look a little bit more the part of the spiritual aspirant. I do my diligent work as the teachers teach me to do my daily meditations, my daily prayers, my vipassana, whatever it may be, I become the diligent student I believe in that, that's, that's the door. Because my teachers told me that about when I discipline my mind, when I still my mind, when I call my mind, I will find myself within that space. And so I do that work. So people look for the door in all kinds of different forms. In that case, [00:28:00] it might just be, door is the door. the gateway that the teachers are pointing to. And if I could do this work with my mind, then I will find what I want. each person seeks it out a little bit differently, but I don't know if there is anything that is the door. I just find it to be more people chase or seek. And we've heard this before, like, stop seeking. It's all in you. And yet we are drawn to seek. It's almost as though the transformational journey itself, uh, a certain period of seeking until we realized we don't need to seek, at least seeking outside of ourselves. So people start seeking inside. Okay. Yeah. Right.
Jonathan: I asked that partly because for me there was there was a bit of what I Recognize to be a door on some level The moment I decided to quit my corporate job and go backpacking through south [00:29:00] america changed everything for me That was a moment where I left one life behind and I entered into another life that sort of You know one thing led to the other led to the other led to the other to where I am today You And actually, I've never felt the euphoria, the bliss that I felt that day when I entered my car having quit.
It was as if the universe aligned. I was, I was doing exactly what life wanted me to be doing. It was incredible. I was in tears. I was As high as could be, you know, with no substance whatsoever. And yeah, that was a bit of a door. Um, but I guess it, it, it kind of can look different because I guess the difference for me was I wasn't looking for a career or like how I could, it wasn't about how does this become something?
It was, I'm on a journey and this is the next step on that journey. And I need to honor this and go all in basically.
Leon: Yeah. [00:30:00] Exactly. So I use the word door as a metaphor. And again, for me, it's always been this idea that There really is no secret. I guess that's what it is. It's, it's, it's not this one thing that you seek out and find and therefore you've got, it's not this recipe, like follow these steps and you get there.
That's what I mean by the metaphorical door. But in the sense that you will have moments in your life where you make a decision that is so aligned with the highest truth of what you know that you will feel utter freedom in that. It's what I'm hearing and what you were saying, right? Just that sense of unbridled, utter freedom. That it feels like, yeah, you've, you've crossed over a certain threshold into another kind of world and the hero's journey there. They actually paint this image of a threshold we step over the threshold from the known world that conditioned world into this unknown world. And we embark on this heroic journey into the depths of ourselves. And for, for what you're saying that I'm hearing that that was the moment when you [00:31:00] stepped over. the threshold and says, it shall no longer be like that. It shall only be like this and where it shall go. This journey shall take me. I have no idea,
Jonathan: Absolutely.
Leon: I'm all in.
Jonathan: Yes.
Leon: Yeah.
Jonathan: Absolutely. Thank you. So then you enter into this or you're in this sort of vast space looking at into this horizon. What then starts to unfold for you with this shift that happened?
Leon: That's when, interestingly enough, everything that I believe I was to be about in this world started to come to me again, without necessarily any effort. There was a narrowing of the field of. Maybe it's this, maybe it's that, maybe I should go here, maybe I should try that, and trying all these things, just this massive narrowing down. And as it happened to be, it narrowed down to this field we call coaching, in terms of the doing. Because what had happened as I was exploring all these avenues was one of them [00:32:00] was this thing called coaching. Getting certified, starting to understand that, because as I said earlier, I was working in learning development for years with adults. primarily in the field of training and facilitation. So it made perfect sense then when I first heard about coaching that I would just add that to my repertoire because it was another way to be of service to people and to help them learn and grow. So then I would have training, facilitation and coaching, but it didn't mean that coaching was the thing. It just meant, ah, what a wonderful additional skill set to have so that I can compliment it with these other two and be able to do more with people. Okay, great. But then what happened, which I didn't anticipate, was that I fell in love coaching. I fell in love with the one to one conversation and the depth that we were gaining. Because in corporate life, and doing, let's say, a team building program, or even a corporate training around some topic of development, have their [00:33:00] walls up. They have their walls up with each other. They don't necessarily even know they do, it's just how they show up. Maybe they come in the persona of, I'm the professional. I wear this persona of the professional businessman the persona of the dynamic business person or the persona of the creative person, whatever the persona is, we've got our personas up, we've got our walls up. There's only so much we'll reveal. And then I found in coaching, wow, here people are willing to drop those walls a bit. And the more trust that we can create with each other, the more those walls drop the point where people will start to really reveal their life. in very intimate ways, very vulnerable ways to me. And if I can hold that and really honor that, then I started to notice that a magical kind of experience arises for both of us. But the other side of that was as I began to recognize that coaching was the direction for me, that I was loving the depth of communication and connection I was experiencing. I also noticed [00:34:00] that I was sometimes inadequately prepared in my, from my coaching training to work with what people were bringing to the table. And this is where things actually got very interesting for me. And what I mean by that is, let's say we're working with limiting beliefs, core limiting beliefs, this idea, and I'll just give an example of I'm not good enough. Okay. So if we've been carrying that thought since we were young, in some form, unconscious.
It's like wearing a pair of glasses that we no longer know we're wearing. And we just see life through the lens of I'm not good enough. And everything is tainted by that. It's in us. It's in our DNA almost. It's in our genes. It's in our mind. It's in, it's, it's just in there. It's baked in. if someone says to you, I want to, I want to let that go. How do you do that? How do you do that? Now, my coach training would say, well, you just ask some powerful questions or you help them reframe perspectives. How are you good enough? Tell me all the ways that you're good enough. [00:35:00] How do you want to affirm your goodness? I'm not saying these things don't work.
They're one way to begin to work with these core things. there is this question like, how do you outwork something that is embedded, wedded to the core of your being? Like it's, it's baked in to your DNA, so to speak. Like, how do you just affirm opposite and then la la la, I've let that go, right? So there, I was, I was inadequately prepared.
Right. I knew this to deal with. I didn't know what to do. Right? Now there's some stories around all of what transpired, but the reality is I began to start experimenting in coaching in ways that I was never taught. And one of those experimentations was around doing energetic healing work a coaching space. And when we started doing it at that level, we started working with deep. [00:36:00] core beliefs and healing those at a deep energetic level and a deep level of mind. That's when I started to notice that people were growing and changing in ways that were truly beneficial, a core level beneficial to who they were and who they were becoming. And that's when coaching got really interesting for me. That was a real pivotal shift in my understanding of what's possible and what's in a human relationship like that. Nothing I'd ever been taught in any coaching program I'd ever seen. yet I was thinking this is the potential of what can happen when two people come together as one, where we create a space in which, let's just say spirit is alive for us to do the deepest work possible. We begin to heal these core limiting beliefs a core level of mind.
Jonathan: You mentioned spirit. How would you define spirit?
Leon: Well, I keep it quite open. You know, I write about this in the book is that I don't want to define spirit for [00:37:00] anybody. So I just look at as this greater consciousness, this evolutionary consciousness, this transcendental consciousness that exists in life itself. Now, some people might use other words. They might say, well, spirit is God or spirit is the divine or spirit is source or spirit is infinite love or whatever word that they would like to use. And other people talk about the angelic realms or spiritual beings. So again, without having to get into this idea of it actually is on a, on a labeling, keep it wide open so that everybody can self define spirit for themselves. Okay. do look at spirit as this infinite consciousness, right? mind, the infinite mind. And that infinite mind can show up for me in many different forms. It could be that there is an angelic realm through which spirit works. Or that we have guardian angels who support us as spiritual beings. Like, [00:38:00] all of this could be true. But I don't want to like all of that.
I just look at it as kind of this, this aspect of life that lies beyond the veil of our human experience for the most part, because for the most part, most people aren't able to perceive let's say the other realms of spirit. Some people absolutely can. Some people channel, some people can perceive all of that.
Great. But let's just say the majority of humanity. It's kind of blind to that, to that reality. They sense its existence. It's obviously alive in them, but they're blind to it on a kind of visual sensory level. So for me, spirit, again, it's just this vast intelligence of consciousness that invites us in to knowing ourselves at our own highest level of being so that we begin to grow into that potential. So that's what I name as spirit, the divine energy of infinite consciousness.
Jonathan: Yeah. So you're in a session with someone and you're [00:39:00] inviting spirit in and there's healing that happens. And perhaps it's helpful to define also what healing is. Cause. When folks hear the word healing, they're like, yeah, that's what therapy is for, you know,
how is this, who is healing and coaching, you know, related, how, what would you say to these people?
Leon: Yeah, that's good because healing then can have a little bit of a negative connotation if it's this idea that healing is fixing something that's broken or like I'm broken. So I have to go to therapy so that I could fix myself. is an, and I say that's a bit of a negative connotation because nobody really wants to. Say, well, I'm broken and I don't want to go to therapy because I'm not broken kind of thing. So that image is still alive. The healing can be for some, this idea of mending that which is broken. Let's say I break my arm, I go get a cast put on and it returns that [00:40:00] arm to normal functioning. one image of healing, kind of returning to a normal functioning from a broken state. But the other image of healing I think is much more powerful. And that's the image of the recognition of my innate wholeness and completion. The recognition of my innate wholeness and completion, there's an aspect of my being, the essence of who I am, the soul, the higher self, however we want to name it, that is in essence whole and complete. And the journey of healing, which is another word really for the journey of transformation, is simply the journey into wholeness. stripping away all of that aspect of mind that stands in the way of my capacity to perceive experience the essence of who I am as whole and complete. this is a really powerful image for coaching because traditionally coaching [00:41:00] says, well, what differentiates us from therapy is that therapy is fixing people who are broken coaching moves functional people into performance kind of, you know, we take people to that next level. So it fits well with that in the sense that it is a movement into a future state of higher potential, which fits within the coaching kind of box. But it's also a more powerful image because it's essentially saying at the core of who you are, there is nothing broken. There's nothing that needs to be fixed. The only thing is that your mind has gotten in your way of remembering or recognizing that innate capacity. That you are magnificent at your core, and if you can touch that part of yourself, that'll begin to shift everything in your life experience. And if you can start to drop those many, many layers of ego and conditioning that have said you are anything less than, then you'll again start to experience life in really magnificent and powerful ways.
And this is [00:42:00] the journey of transformation, and it's by no means short, it's by no means easeful, it's the muck we were talking about earlier, right, going into all of that. that's the beauty of the coaching context in that way is that it allows for the conversation around what does it take to heal, both letting go of anything that really is no longer who I am, no longer serves my highest being, and the letting come, that emergent sense of embodying these higher states of being. To me, that's healing. All of that.
Jonathan: So all of this, eventually language came for all of this, you know, you've been at this for some time, but in the moment, you're sort of discovering it as if you're discovering this new land. what was that experience of sort of stumbling, so to speak into healing? This new way of supporting someone.
Leon: Yeah, I never felt really like stumbling, though. There were times when I didn't know what I was doing. So there were times that I felt like I was bumbling [00:43:00] my work because literally I didn't know what I was doing. And I would invite clients into experiences. And I had this term for it. I called them light body healing experiences.
This was me attempting to work with energetic healing across distances. And I didn't know if there was anything to it. I was, but it was this invitation to really step into the consciousness of love as an intelligence, as a healing agent within the mind and to begin to see what love as a consciousness is capable of doing when we open ourselves to that inflow of energy, which really is part of the fabric of, of, of life.
Okay. there were many times when I felt like I was bumbling along, like I didn't know what I was doing and I was questioning whether there was any validity to this. And if there was a session where someone said, Oh, Leon, that was amazing. I could feel the expansion. I could feel just layers dropping away.
I'd be like, Oh, this is great. And then I'd have another session and somebody would say, Well, I fell asleep. Is that, is that good? [00:44:00]
Navigating Doubts and Discovering Light Body Healing
Leon: I would have to tell myself that was good. That was good. Something was happening where they were, they were asleep. And others would say, Well, I didn't feel a thing. And they wouldn't come back for more. And in those moments, I'm certainly questioning. Is this something I'm absolutely making up? real validity to this? What, what, what the heck is this? So that's why I would say I was bumbling along in my work, even though this is what I knew I wanted to do. It was deeply experiential. I had no teachers. I had no external guides to this. I was kind of in a sense, making it up as I went, but it always felt like I was offering something that was really my idea. In a sense, it arises in my mind, but it felt like something greater was being, being shown to me without me necessarily being shown the hows and the what's going on. So it felt like bumbling.
Introducing Light Body Healing to Clients
Jonathan: How did you set this up for your clients then? So that it wasn't sort [00:45:00] of your agenda coming into the fold of, Hey, this is going to be a healing space and I'm going to hold this type of space for you. were they aware that this was something that they could experience?
Leon: Yeah, so it would happen when, well, first it began when a client and I would be working on one of these deep core issues for a long time. And it just seemed like nothing was changing, like nothing was being released. And this, all this idea of just, if we could just inquire more inquiry, which is the coaching way, right?
Coaching is based on the inquiry model. If I could come up with a more powerful question, that should do the trick. That's what the coach training says, right? But that's not true. That's just not the reality. Questions are often born of the intellect. And the intellect, we talk about in the deep coaching work, doesn't heal anything. The intellect can only point to what's in need of [00:46:00] healing. So often there was coming a point when it would just be this sense of, uh, we're not going anywhere here. And then I would say, well, listen, you like to try something? And I remember the first person I tried this with, he was the CEO of an engineering company. So you can imagine his left brain as it gets, right? It's kind of weighted to the side. The left brain is working. And he had been working with me for months on this really deep core piece. And I said, listen, would you like to try something? And he said, what? We had a good relationship by this point. We've been working together for a couple of years.
And he said, what? I said, don't know what it is I call it a light body healing. don't know exactly know how it works. I don't really even know that I know what I'm doing. Would you like to try? And he said, yeah, let's give it a go. So in that way, I wasn't making it my agenda. It was always an invitation to this experience. And once I had that experience with him and we felt that [00:47:00] deep movement of something beyond our understanding, that movement of expansive energy I am now labeling as the field of love consciousness, I began to offer it to more people in very much the same way that I was working with. Would you like to try something? I'm not really sure what's going on. I really don't know that I know what I'm doing. But I call it a light body healing. And I have a feeling this might do something for you given what's going on for you right now. And so that's where it began. And they would just have the option to say yes or no. And if we did one and they said would you like to do another one they would sometimes say yes and sometimes they would say no. Okay. Alright.
Founding the Center for Transformational Coaching
Jonathan: And so then you go on and eventually create the Center for Transformational Coaching. How long were you coaching in that way before the thought came of, Hey, others may want to coach in this way. And I'd love to create a school, an institution, an organization to support those people.
Leon: Yeah, it [00:48:00] came slowly, like it wasn't there at first. In fact, it first came in as a, as a suggestion from one of my colleagues who I greatly admired. And she said to me, Leon, have you thought about, because I was having a conversation with her once about what I was playing with in my own coaching space and what I was kind of noticing were experiences that I was having in my sessions so radically different than what we were teaching in our. traditional coach training were so radically different from the way that coaching was held as an idea. But I was talking about here with all this, I'm saying, listen, I'm working with my clients in all these ways. I don't even know if this is really in the field of coaching. To me, this is coaching. To me, this is deep coaching. is, it doesn't get deeper than this. Like what is deeper than when we touch the most essential levels of who we are and when we open up to the most shadowy, sticky parts of ourselves, with this idea that I can release this and become something much greater, free myself from the shackles of my mind's [00:49:00] limitations. And so these conversations, she said, well, have you thought of, I don't know, turning this into a course because you've got something here. And naturally, because when I do training and facilitation, there is a, there's a teaching element that I've been involved in. I, I, I maybe call it training, but the reality is there's a, there's always been a teaching element to what I've done.
Um, And I am in many ways a natural teacher. You know, I've got the center going. So there's an entrepreneurial piece to what I do as well. But I think at the core, I'm a teacher and a coach and a facilitator. So when she said, why don't you turn this into a course? That really landed because there's an opportunity for me to, to teach. I thought, okay, maybe there's something here. it began this, this, you know, sitting with that on my own and my own meditative times and just reflective times. What is this thing? What is it based on? And slowly information would just kind of land. And again, it didn't feel like I was just receiving [00:50:00] from some being like, Oh, here it all is.
It came in slowly and little trickles. So it often feel like it would just arise in my mind. a thought, there's an idea, this is what it could be. And eventually it took shape into something. And I was able to draft that into a 10 week course, which we're now calling the First Deep Coaching Intensive Course. And it was launched to seven people, 2013, right? I didn't really still know whether it was going to work. It was, again, one gigantic experiment. Is this going to work? I mean, what works for me in my coaching space, is this going to make any difference anybody else's coaching space? So anyway, I opened it up, I invited people in and it was a resounding success. Okay, wonderful. And that gave me the confidence to then offer it again and to continue to refine the work over time. But it gave me the confidence to keep going with, with the work.
Developing Deep Coaching Practices
Jonathan: How long did it take you to land on the nine deep coaching practices? What was that [00:51:00] process like?
Leon: It didn't take terribly long, actually. There was a process of me drafting out practices. And I can't really tell you today, Jonathan, where this idea of it being based on practices rather than frameworks or models or methodologies came from. You know, that's, that's the piece that I'm still a little bit today vague on how that really landed, but somehow in some way it came across as it needs to be about practices, which we now call transformative practices. I would just list out, would look at how I was coaching and kind of look at what I was called to do in a session, kind of my own understanding of the way that. We create spaces that really help people open to their highest truths, like how that was being done. And I was drawing from a lot of different sources and different ideas of my own experiences, not just in coaching, but even when I would join a community for a conversation. And I was introduced to, let's see, Harris and Owens work in open [00:52:00] space, and those principles of open space, right? Principles like the law of two feet. If you're not learning and contributing here, you take your two feet, you point them into a direction, and you let them take you to a place where you are learning and contributing.
And this whole idea of self organization, you know, that, that was a really big learning for me early on. And I held that, that there's a self organizing behavior that happens. So I was just drawing from all these learnings and different experiences that I was having and I was just mapping them out. And at one point, I think I had about 20 or so practices and I thought, well, I can't in all good. consciousness put together, of course, with 20 practices. So then it was a matter of refinement. Okay. Which ones are so similar to each other that we could combine them? And it just began a honing process until we got to nine. And what's interesting is once I landed on those nine, while there was a bit of reordering done, those nine today are the exact same nine that I [00:53:00] started with in the first course. In other words, after teaching it a few times, it would, you might assume, well, you would change some, or some of them don't seem as relevant, or, you know, that kind of honing process would continue. Interestingly enough, the nine of that first DCI are the same nine as today. Yeah.
Jonathan: Yeah, except now there's a bit of a, well, I guess, well, this is a bit of a, um, A little secret that there's a tenth practice that has been snubbed.
Leon: That's the cat out of the bag. Yes. Yeah. There's a 10th practice. Yes, there's a 10th practice. And I know people listening may not know what those nine practices are, so maybe not relevant to share the 10th, but I'll share what it is anyway. It's called expand your capacity to be with light. And this, there's a whole story behind that one.
And light just means much higher flows of positive radiant energy. Now, this actually dovetails back to another interesting learning piece for me, which was [00:54:00] Gay Hendricks, the psychologist who's written many books, his book called The Big Leap. And in The Big Leap, he posits that we have an upper limit, kind of a threshold, to how much positive, good energy we can carry within the totality of our system we will do something to sabotage ourselves.
So in other words, if we go beyond that threshold and we start feeling too good for too long, our system mind and body actually handle it. And we will do something unconsciously bring ourselves back down to what is our normal flow. Normality varies for each person. Some people live in a, let's say, a highly negative, dark state. they may feel then for a moment, goodness, but it won't take long for something to happen. And it can be as simple as a thought, like a negative worry thought that can constrict you immediately. have to be an external event. But it could be, for example, you're getting to feel, you're on a date, you're feeling too [00:55:00] good, you've expanded, it just couldn't be more wonderful, and the next time you find yourself, next minute you find yourself bickering over who pays the bill. And, phoom, back down into a kind of normality. So once he showed me this, I recognized that this is a very, much a truth when it comes to our capacity to hold. Love, light, these very, very high frequencies of vibration in the totality of our being for extended periods of time. That we can maybe feel some love for a moment, maybe even feel love towards a person, but eventually we will do something or life in some way will usher in an event that will cause us to constrict and be back in our normality. is not good or bad, right or wrong, it's just recognizing we all have a kind of normality. So this idea of expanding beyond our threshold. That's what this 10th practice is about. It's expanding our capacity to be with light. And just like our 7th deep coaching practice is, expand your capacity to be with pain. how [00:56:00] much pain, mine and others, am I capable of simply holding it becoming uncomfortable for me? Where I will do something to get myself out of that situation. So these two are quite interrelated practices. One is about expanding capacity to be with negative, heavy energies. as you know, our world is going through it. And it's very easy to just run away to find the good places rather than being with even what's in ourselves. And then the other side of it is, okay, so now that we're beginning to feel higher flows of energy, what are we doing to sabotage ourselves? And can we expand to the point where we're holding more and more positive, vibrant energy within our being?
Jonathan: And speaking to that point of expanding your capacity to be with light at this stage of the story, you are now fully living your purpose. You have landed on your purpose. You have a beautiful family that is growing. You are, everything is clicking. there any event or anything that [00:57:00] you experienced that sort of brought you back in that sort of way or contracted you in some sort of way during that time?
Leon: any significant degree, no. So what happens is As we expand in this way, there will be moments that life continues to test us. That is the nature of it. It's an ongoing kind of cyclical process of returning to where we've been before. So, you know, two steps forward, sometimes three steps back, two steps forward, four steps forward, two steps back, you know, that process, this ongoing kind of cyclical upward spiraling movement.
I think that's the best image for it. absolutely life was always and will always test every time I felt reached something that felt solid and real and true. And I've got this. Life would come along and find that little spot of vulnerability and just poke. And then in that there's a contraction. Absolutely. But what happens is that the amount of [00:58:00] time that you spend in the contracted state begins to diminish. Over time, because you're building a resiliency, a capacity to return to, a capacity to return to, time time gap between the contraction and the return to, that begins to narrow. So at first it might be it knocks you out for a week. Like something happens, somebody says something, an event happens. fear that's in there. There's worry, concern, and you're, you're knocked out for a week and you're just in a dark place and it's heavy and it's hard. And you don't know how you got there because you were in such a good flow. Everything was happening. I felt so good. What the hell? And then I'm back in this contracted state. But over time, you get really, really adept at the work, that contracted state is, uh, see it in an instant and in almost an instant later, you make the shift back. Like it just no longer has. stickiness to hold on to.
There's not enough of that [00:59:00] negative heavier energy within the totality of you this stuff to stick to for, for long. And so very soon you return to, and that's what's happens is over time, just this resiliency capacity to return to return to return to sometimes in the blink of an eye, sometimes it takes half an hour, sometimes it takes a day, but it just continues to improve in that way. And there's no longer a desire. for negative states. It doesn't, it doesn't fit. Fear comes in around something. Let's say fear around finances. Oh, it's just like, Oh, there it is. Oh, there it is. My old friend, the fear around fill in the blank, the fear around not being seen, the fear around not being worthy, the fear around losing something I value.
There it is. The fear around not being seen as successful, whatever. There it is. My old friend. Ah, How much time am I going to spend with you, my old friend? You know, shall I wallow in you for a little bit? Shall I allow you to dictate the [01:00:00] experience I'm having? Because it's always in our power to choose.
You may not feel like it, but there is only the mind and the power to choose.
Jonathan: imagine, you know, the center has been around now for what, the 12 years, I guess where this is in the 12th year.
Leon: Yeah.
Jonathan: business standpoint, what, what, what, what has the biggest challenge been during that period that sort of pushed you to, um, be more, do more, expand more, et cetera.
Trusting Organic Growth and Future Visions
Leon: I think what it has been, bar none, is trusting organic growth. Okay. So you, and you know this, like the way that I ran the center for many years was never business as usual. A business as usual says you set your targets your work plans and you go about achieving those things and you measure it. You see where you're at.
If you made it, you didn't make it. You make tweaks and on you go, right? This idea of just relentless growth. [01:01:00] Yeah. And it could be very value driven growth. That's absolutely okay. You could be doing the best work in the world, but there's still this idea of just kind of relentless pursuit of growth and what comes from that. My whole approach from the very beginning was this idea. What does truly organic work look like for organic growth to happen no set targets, no growth on financial or otherwise numbers, to really allow people to come into the ecosystem who want to be there who want to contribute. Maybe we take out a blank piece of paper and say, what would we like to create together?
Instead of saying, it's got to be this, it's got to be that. It's like, what would we like to create together? What are the experiences we want to have together? How do we want to make this? And that was the hardest part because while that sounds very easy, Organic growth isn't certain in the sense that you don't necessarily know what's gonna be happening [01:02:00] three months, six months, nine months, five years down the road. There's no roadmap to the future, right? is often created by people so that they have a sense of certainty about where they're going. Well, what happens if you remove the roadmap? And you just stare at a blank piece of paper and say, I don't know where, where the heck is this going to go? This feels good.
It seems right. We've got something here, but where is it going to go? So it requires the cultivation of this immense well of trust in life. And undoubtedly that is the hardest thing because you're asking, you're in the most uncertain place and you're asking life, if you will, to support you, grow in ways that you cannot comprehend. to bring about an experience for yourself and an organization in general that you have no plan for. And you're really turning it over to something much greater than yourself saying, well, going to trust that there's something in this. Um, [01:03:00] but that was the hardest part, resting in the trust of self organizing organic growth.
Jonathan: Yeah. Trust. Trust is absolutely the most difficult part for folks on this journey because
Kind of like you mentioned when you were in the muck, you have the impatience sets in or the fear sets in the scarcity. It's like now I need to insert myself and do something. A
Leon: Exactly. Exactly. Yes. A lot of self insertion. Yes.
Jonathan: lot of insertion. So from that, from the position that you're in now, having, you know, experienced so much of the ups and downs and leaned into trust and seeing that life has shown up over and over again for you in incredible ways. What is that nugget of wisdom that, that you carry with you from, from those experiences?
Leon: Around trust?
Jonathan: Yeah. Around trust.
Leon: Yeah. I mean, the nugget of wisdom is to trust, isn't it? But saying that is so easy. Like, [01:04:00] just trust in life. It's got your back. Because many people do not. believe that life has got your back. So what I've learned is that it's a partnership. I view it as a partnership because if you sit in this spot of, well, I just expect life to have my back and when it doesn't, I can blame life. Like clearly people are lucky and I'm unlucky. Some people are fortunate, but I'm just unfortunate. Something like this can arise. But this idea of viewing yourself in partnership, a co creative partnership with people. I think this is new for a lot of folks still. And so I'll give you an example like the movie The Secret that came out.
Not everyone knows this film, but in the early 2000s, this, A film called The Secret came out. It went viral by viral standards back in 2005, no fairly new still on the internet, but it went viral it was a well made film and it [01:05:00] was about the law of attraction, the power to manifest we desire in life. And I look at this film both as having an immense positive upside for humanity, how many people it reached, and I also see the kind of downside to humanity. Now, the upside was was teaching people about the power of their mind bring about experiences and things, material things that they desired. It was possibly pointing to on a very wide scale level that it's your mind. You have to understand the scope and capacity of your mind to create your experience. And if you use it in a certain way, you can call to yourself things you want. So they had all these examples of relationships that were created with the mind and the kid who got the bicycle.
And he had to do was think about it or draw about it or write about it. So people began to manifest [01:06:00] and it works like this is the beauty of it. There is absolutely a reality. Now it doesn't work for all people in all ways. And so therefore people will say, well, see, it doesn't work. It's just hogwash because I was thinking about that car for a very long time or having that vacation in the Bahamas and it never happened. Or I was visualizing having, you know, this happened or that happened, didn't happen. See, it doesn't work. It's crap. Okay, fair enough. But this is still a truth that your mind is the creative your experience. You can't eliminate. That's just the reality. So the moment you think this is crap, guess what's true? It's crap. Okay, good. But it was still for me, um, missing something. So what happened in that film for me was it said to people that your will Your desire to make something happen matters and that the universe responds to your desire and your will. That's true. It really does. Now, unfortunately, it was focused a lot on the material side of things, like getting that car, that bike, that [01:07:00] fancy home. So people were thinking, yeah, I just manifest the heck out of the stuff I want. was missing the greater picture, I think, really, which is, do you understand the power of your mind to be a creative vehicle in this world? And that you can will things to happen. can will things to happen. But to me, that was just a level of living.
It wasn't, it's not the epitome of living. The next stage, if you could call it that, what I call co creative partnership. It's where we do recognize that there is a capacity of mind to bring forth the things we want. Yes, can also use that capacity to be in partnership with life and begin to ask the questions, what is life asking of me? Right? What is life asking of me? when you sit with that, life has an opportunity to say, yeah, your will matters. Like we do care about what you want to have happen. You are an individual in this world. You have unique talents, unique [01:08:00] gifts, unique perspectives, passions. We want to leverage those passions.
We don't want this to be without you in it. We want all of you in. And when all of you says you're in, you're in. And yet you make all of that available to us. We will begin to move life for you in a way that brings forth the kinds of experiences you desire and that will help you continue to grow. So to me, this piece of life part, in partnership with life is probably the biggest learning because there's no manual for this. It really is something that you have to play with on your own. And it doesn't mean that you don't have negative experiences anymore. It does mean that you might reinterpret what once was called negative, and beginning to see a much larger play, and say, ah, maybe, just maybe, my sense of that being negative is just way off the [01:09:00] mark. Yes, something for me to learn. Absolutely. A growth opportunity. Absolutely. But it's not so we start to reinterpret what we may have once called negative. But just to be clear, it doesn't mean that everything that happens is always perceived as the bed of roses. Life will continue to test your trust in his partnership. And so that is, for me, the biggest learning is that there's a level beyond my will. And it's what happens when I put my will, my gifts, my talents and abilities at the service of life. Hmm.
Jonathan: Yeah, that's the biggest key. The place I've noticed folks get most tripped up when it comes to trust is, okay, I'll trust, but there's this sort of inner grip, this sort of like, yeah, but it needs to happen in this amount of time in this way. It needs to look exactly like this. And if it doesn't, then I'm not going to trust.
It's where is it? What's, you know, I'm putting this intention out there. And then there's this sort of conflict with life that happens. Can I really trust? Should I [01:10:00] trust? And so
Leon: trust? Yep.
Jonathan: piece with life and really listening to what life is trying to communicate to you, for you, through you is the main piece that I find is missing.
And now we're
yeah, go ahead.
Leon: I was going to say, it takes a little bit of an evolved self to understand this. Like, I don't think you just skip that stage I was talking about. Like, there's still, there's going to be a stage in our lives when we do need to understand that we can exercise our will. And that it can be beneficial.
Like, it's a stage of learning. But not to get locked into this idea. Like that's the end all be all of my will drives my life experience. Like there's another stage, but that's what I say. It takes a bit of of the self to perceive it. And then to even want to be a part of it, because you have to let go of so much of the thing called my will, my desire, my needs, my wants, my, my, my. We have [01:11:00] to drop a lot of the I and me for the, we. And that's that that can be challenging at first. Yeah.
Jonathan: This topic that all of this that we're speaking to is obviously going to be attractive to a certain profile person. And I'm curious, what have you noticed the folks that come into the center and that are most attracted to this work? What kind of profile do they have? What sort of stage on the journey are they in?
Leon: Yeah, most of them are kind of in the throes of or beginning their transformational journey. That that piece that I was talking about where they're really beginning to question conditioning, to question way they've been taught by society and family to think about themselves. and to think about life and to think about their potentials within it. Many of them feel that yearning that I was speaking about earlier, that call to be about something deeply purposeful and meaningful in [01:12:00] service of other human beings, because knowing that when I serve others from the fullest of myself, I am so serving myself at the same time, like that piece of me is fulfilled. So they're coming in with that yearning and they're beginning to see coaching, just like I did as well, that coaching is a vehicle, for accelerating our own learning and growth, because now we're doing it in connection with another human being. Like when I hold the space for another human being to touch that part of themselves, which is most essential and real. have to be doing that for myself simultaneously. I have to be in the space of touching that. So another can touch that space within themselves. We share that. And I think then the people that come in start to see that, wow, Coaching is a vehicle, what we call deep coaching at least, is a vehicle to greater connection within myself. And that's really what I'm looking for. I'm looking to understand myself, my purpose, my place, and my potential within this world through being of service to others, helping other [01:13:00] people grow in ways that I also find meaningful and valuable and joyful. And so that's the people that we're bringing in. They're questioning. their life trajectory. They're questioning whether work that they've been doing is really deeply fulfilling, whether there's something more. Some of them are coaches, right? And they've got coach training and coach experience. And they're saying, but I sense there's much more I can do with my clients, but I'm not sure what the issue is.
Like, what am I bringing? That's getting in the way I've been coaching for 20 years, but, but, but something we're not, we're not there yet. then they go through the program and they begin to see all of that stuff that they have themselves bring in that gets in the way. There's a good breath of fresh air because they can just begin to drop that. To unlearn so much of what they've learned, to let go of so many of their patterns of coaching and just the way they show up, their presence. shift all of that radically and then they start to notice the experiences that they've been yearning for show up. And we get new people coming in too, some of them who [01:14:00] don't even want to be coaches.
Yeah. they get the sense that there's something in learning how to hold space and be there for others that I can take into any of my life for the rest of my life because it's fundamentally changed who I am and how I listen and how I show up. So there's not one type of person, but in general, there is a sense of is my purpose in place in this world and how do I actualize that through service of others?
Yeah,
Jonathan: intensive does a beautiful job of balancing the coach training with the supporting the personal transform transformational journey. How does it create that balance? Because one is sort of a skill set that you're acquiring. The other one is quite an intensive inner process.
Leon: there's kind of like a relational skill set, like the skill set of being in relation to other people. There's a skill set that you might call the coaching skill set, which, you know, if you look at all coaching methodologies, regardless of whether it's deep coaching that we [01:15:00] do or whether it's a very transactional form of coaching, the, the, the core of it is a kind of intellectual inquiry based process that teaches you how to listen differently. how to become astute at inquiring. They say be curious. It's kind of like that. know if that's the right word always, but just the sense that if I ask in a certain way, or inquire in a certain way, people will begin to open their lives to me. And I think that's the core thing that they're learning.
They're learning a kind of skill set that's not taught in schools. we go to, uh, through high school, nobody's really teaching us deep listening. They're not teaching us how to hold space. They're not teaching us how to kind of enter into another human person's life, really begin to see life through their lens, so that we can support them in ways that are meaningful.
We're not taught how to help another person tap into the deepest part of themselves and listen to them at an [01:16:00] essential level. Like these are all the skills that we're learning here. In addition to communication skills like paraphrasing, mirroring, connecting dots, you know, these more, um, yeah, conventional coaching competencies.
Let's call it that that show up in all. You know, we're still learning those, but we're learning a whole different set of relational skills, which are really the pieces that people want because you carry that, like I said, into any endeavor. If you're a leader, This would radically shift the way that you listen to people, radically shift the way that you lead, even if you have no intention of being a coach per se. whole quality of your presence changes because the way that you want to show up for people is so much more real and authentic. Those personas that we carry, those masks that we all carry, they just fall away. They just fall away. And when we show up authentically, in any corner of the world, as we are, open, they People are going to be attracted to that who want to be a part of that [01:17:00] experience with us. So that's what we're teaching in there. We're teaching all these different kinds of relational skill sets as long as along with, you know, coaching skill sets.
Jonathan: What do folks most misunderstand about this work?
Leon: Ooh, that's a good question. I'd have to think about that one for a moment. What do they most misunderstand? I'm just trying to get a scope of what people say when they say, well, this is different than I expected. I didn't expect this. And I think what they don't expect, honestly, is the depth. I don't think that many people really grasp how deep we can go with each other. Like how deep it can really be. And this is, this is for people a surprise when they get there, when they touch that field, where, and I say this, where it feels like the two become as one, where there is almost no sense of me and you, there's just the sensible. the [01:18:00] oneness of it. And we sit in that with another human being. We're kind of connecting with the fabric of life at this moment. And I think that's the piece that people can't anticipate until they get there. Because again, it's not something we're taught in school. It's not something that we are often experiencing through our daily doings. But modality by which this can arise. And they think, Oh, okay, well I'll try it. And the un says, try this practice or try that practice. I do. And then, Oh my God, that was magical. I never expected that. Yeah. don't expect it because you don't know to expect it. could talk about that all day long, but until you're in it, it's like, Oh my God. So that's what it normally is. Yeah
Jonathan: What do you sense life is going to look like over the next decade of your life?
Leon: For me, [01:19:00] so I'm still going to play with the partner with life. I'm still going to play with the generally speaking, self organizing behavior of life. do know that I am being in a sense called to another iteration of my work. So the last 10, 11 years. very deep into the center and its work and kind of bringing that to life and understanding life. Because if I'm going to teach about life in this way, what we could call love consciousness or partnering with life or being in deep trust or expanding our capacity to be with pain or light, like if I want to talk about these things, I certainly need to understand them. And I don't just mean understand them because I read a good book. I mean, I have to live them. And what I feel called to now is to begin to teach more about this work, but to help people live it as an experience. So less and less do I want people to think that there is some kind of book [01:20:00] smarts in this. What I would love people to do is to experience themselves in these states of being. So making it more and more experiential. And if that could happen through even, you know, Like we've been doing a lot of work online here in the last decade. And as you know, you do this work online, it's, it's actually magical. It gets this most surprising thing. I still remember my colleague in India who wanted to bring the deep coaching intensive to India and set up, said, well, we're going to do this in person because Indian people love in person programs. And I'm really not confident that this online stuff, you know, when there's 10, 000 miles between us, like we really can't do healing work. We really can't, all these kinds of doubts were there. COVID came along. We had no choice but to cancel the in person and move it online. And after one six month journey, She was astounded, saying, Oh my goodness, like, I cannot believe [01:21:00] what we can experience together virtually. And I said, Yeah, it's as though all connected. We're all connected to something that's got nothing to do with this box in front of us. Or the microphones that take up our voice. We are connecting simultaneously. that piece of it, I now know, is brilliant. and will continue to. But there's another piece of it for me that is about what we can do in person. What we can do in person, because it is qualitatively somewhat different when we come together, whether it's at a retreat or whether it's at a conference or a workshop, whatever it may be, or just come together for an experience where people can begin to embody more and more of these frequencies, because I now understand. we can shortcut a lot of what I went through, maybe even a lot of what you went through the angst and the challenge by helping people more readily connect to these fields of potentiality and experience them as [01:22:00] embodied states for sustained periods of time because that recalibrates and reconfigures the totality of our being. So if we can create that for people more. think will help people kind of accelerate their own transformational journeys. And that's what I see the potential being, because if anything, our world right now needs us to evolve big time and relatively quickly.
Jonathan: Oh, there's no question about that. And that's a whole nother podcast episode that I would love to have you speak to. We're on two different seasons of that, but as we start winding this down, if you could leave listeners with an invitation, so something to reflect on or practice in their own transformational journey, what would that be?
Leon: Well, I could go to one of the practices first. so we didn't talk about specific practices, but my invitation for people on a, on a personal level, one of our first practices is always this idea of slowing life down. Interesting, even today, I [01:23:00] opened my, my, um, iPad for a little bit and a book popped up and it was called something like Experience Life Slowed Down. We're beginning to understand that there is some real benefit. So. So the practice of slowing all of life down to the point where you're sinking with a very natural rhythm of well being, that's an invitation I'll leave as a practice for people. Like even as you finish watching this video, you don't need to rush off to the next thing. need to stimulate with the next thing. You might, in fact, just take a pause. just sit down, turn everything off, and sit with yourself for a moment. To feel the energy. within you that's coming alive because of this. Okay. And to do that repeatedly. Now on an, on a doing level, of course, the invitation is always to have a look at the work we're doing at the center because it will absolutely speak to the hearts and minds of many people who are ready not [01:24:00] only to learn how to accelerate their own journey, but to really support other people to touch the most essential part of themselves. so much noise in the world, and I don't just mean negative noise. There's like, even in the self help world, there are a million books, a million podcasts, a million teachers, and it can get distracting. All of that distracts us from the greatest source of guidance we could ever possibly know. It's all here. And so, the invitation is, as you look at what our work is about It's about helping each of us connect with the greatest guidance we could ever, ever know. So drop by the center, have a look at what we do and know where it's going to take you. So that's the invitation.
Jonathan: Wonderful. Thank you so much, Leon.
Leon: You're welcome. Thank you.